[W8MWA] Road map to the future?
Josh Smith
juicewvu at gmail.com
Fri Sep 25 10:55:58 EDT 2015
Hello Josh,
See my replies inline as before.
Josh Smith
KD8HRX
email/jabber: juicewvu at gmail.com
phone: 304.237.9369(c)
On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 2:05 AM, Josh Prichard <wvunderground at gmail.com>
wrote:
> So what about linking the echolink in via remote base? At least this way
> if it was totally screwed up someone could key up the repeater and kill the
> remote radio link until it was stable again. I don't know if Dean is close
> enough to have a good remote base signal but something to think about.
> Otherwise.... echolink has a remote webpage that we can setup so any of the
> club members can log in and kill the link as well. It would be very easy
> to setup and distribute the login info to everyone. We could probably even
> setup a mini server with power control to kill the echolink radio power in
> case of extreme emergency. Multiple ways to control this link.
>
A remote base sounds like a fantastic idea for linking our repeater to echo
link to me. I'm not sure if Deans QTH is a good one for this or not, but
I'll bet we can find a member or two that are in a good location if Dean is
not.
Randy - Can you weigh in on your thoughts of linking the repeater to
echolink via a remote base as the repeater trustee?
Bill - Can you weigh in from a technical standpoint.
>
> I'm going to revisit the VHF fusion repeater thing as I have been reading
> more info on it. As of what I know now.... there are a few ways we could
> go about this. Since the vhf repeater is old it most likely needs
> replaced. The club could get a fusion repeater and let it replace the vhf
> repeater. We can run the fusion repeater in a few different modes.
> Analog only in / Analog only out
> Analog and Digital in / Analog out*
> Analog and Digital in / Analog and Digital out**
>
> *In the analog and digital in / analog out mode a user can either talk
> digital or analog into the repeater and come out analog only on the output
> so everyone would always hear everything. This would allow digital users
> better input into the repeater and should keep analog users the same as it
> is now.
>
> **Analog and Digital in / Analog and Digital out - in this mode if a group
> of people are talking in digital would be digital in / digital out. Analog
> users wouldn't hear anything as long as they have a ctcss tone set on
> receive. Now if an analog user wants to talk.... when they key up the
> repeater.... the repeater will go into the digital and analog in / analog
> out mode and stay that way until a timeout has happened where the analog
> user has stopped talking. Then it'll be back in analog and digital in /
> analog and digital out.
>
> My new suggestion would be to replace the current vhf machine with a
> fusion repeater and allow the analog and digital in / analog out mode.
> This would at least get a new repeater in place of the old equipment and
> still allow all users to participate. From what I gather yaesu still has
> the 500$ deal going for clubs. This would beat putting money into an old
> repeater.
>
To provide a little more detail on our repeater. The controller is pretty
new (less than 3 years) but the radios are pretty old but have proven to be
very reliable. I'm not sure that a replacement of the entire system is
warranted.
>
> Then perhaps start to build out a UHF network on DMR. I'm aiming at UHF
> for the fact that the new dongles coming out for DMR hotspots are UHF
> based. DMR radios aren't dual band yet.
>
> Now to follow up on some of your other questions I never answered. I'm
> from Logan right now which is right over the hill from Beckley.
>
I know where Logan is, I've been there more than once, though I have not
been there for several years.
> I have been talking on the Ivy Knob dmr repeater after work. I run up the
> top of a hill and talk away. Right now the cheapest HT for dmr would be
> the TYT md-380 I believe. It is what I'm using at the moment.
>
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Walkie-Talkie-TYT-MD-380-UHF-5W-Digital-Mobile-DMR-2-Way-Radio-1xUSB-Cable-US-/301693099071?hash=item463e4f5c3f
>
> Just make sure to get one with a programming cable. They have a codeplug
> avail on the NCPRN site that includes the Beckley repeaters.
>
> http://www.ncprn.net/downloads.html
>
Thanks for the links.
>
>
> As for linking digital repeaters.... its all internet based now days which
> is why it would be a plus to have internet at the repeater sites. The
> wireless link that BIll is working on now is ideal. I run a wireless link
> at 5ghz at my current workplace and haven't had one hickup other than a
> switch that couldn't handle the mac tables from so many devices going
> through it. Running the Ubiquiti Nanostation NSM5 at both locations and it
> maxes a 75meg connection out. Voice data is nowhere near this throughput.
>
I've used ubiquiti equipment and am a big fan as well.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 11:32 PM, Joshua Smith <juicewvu at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dean,
>> Thanks for your input. Please see my comments again they are inline
>> below.
>>
>> 73,
>> --
>> Josh Smith
>> KD8HRX
>>
>> Email/jabber: juicewvu at gmail.com
>> Phone: 304.237.9369(c)
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone.
>>
>> On Sep 22, 2015, at 10:35 PM, Dean Thompson <deanot26508 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I am not seeing any replies from other club members on this,
>>
>> I for one am interested in getting my echolink box set up on a local
>> repeater, if not this one I will try the WVU repeater. Echolink does have
>> some advantages, example being... One of our hams moved away just over a
>> year ago, would it not be nice for him to stop in and say hi on the Monday
>> net?. As Josh mentioned, it is also nice for when we are out of town.
>>
>>
>>
>> I agree echo link has some nice use sees and I would like to see it
>> available on the MWA repeater. Although I think the ability to
>> break/reestablish this link from the repeater side and I am not sure what
>> is involved in making that a possibility.
>>
>>
>> We need more feedback on this, more replies as this affects us all in
>> some way or another.
>>
>>
>> We definitely need feedback from everyone in the club. Most importantly
>> from Bill(WR8S) as the technical person who takes care of the repeater and
>> from Randy (N8OZY) as the repeater trustee.
>>
>> hopefully they are able to weigh in on this via email but if not we have
>> a good topic to address in the October meeting.
>>
>> Josh has made some good points, and I look forward to moving forward on
>> some of these ideas. First we need to either replace the aged repeater or
>> repair it, having a digital mode would be nice also.
>>
>>
>> I agree our number one priority needs to be in repairing the repeater
>> (even if that means replacing some of the equipment). I also would like to
>> see us have a digital repeater of some sort in addition to our existing
>> analog repeater NOT in place of as I think asking everyone to replace their
>> existing equipment just to access the repeater would be a disaster for the
>> club.
>>
>>
>> What is the situation for a new repeater? can we afford one? do we need
>> to chip in, raise some funding somehow?
>>
>>
>> I think we need to first get the existing repeater back to its optimal
>> condition and see what that does to our funds. Then we can start to plan
>> for expanding our repeater system - hopefully into the digital space.
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.yaesu.com/indexVS.cfm?cmd=DisplayProducts&ProdCatID=249&encProdID=4105F1B8AE65079CAD2D26735B83B302
>> this is the system fusion repeater if anyone is interested, and I just
>> noticed it uses C4FM which is what my Yeasu 991 can run, so that is a plus
>> for me.. lol
>>
>>
>> That seems like a good deal on the repeater. Unfortunately I believe most
>> of the expenses with building out a new repeater will be in the ancillary
>> things that go along with it - antennas, feed line, duplexes, filters, etc.
>>
>>
>> I don't know if this is bogus or not, but the above repeater is $500 on a
>> club special, see here
>> http://www.radioinc.com/oscmax/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=3791
>>
>> I hope to see you all at the next meeting, Josh and Josh, keep up the
>> chat, I feel some headway is being made.
>>
>>
>> Thanks again for the input.
>>
>>
>> Dean (KD8YNY)
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 9:02 PM, Josh Smith <juicewvu at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Josh,
>>>
>>> Please see my comments inline again.
>>>
>>> Josh Smith
>>> KD8HRX
>>> email/jabber: juicewvu at gmail.com
>>> phone: 304.237.9369(c)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at 4:31 PM, Josh Prichard <wvunderground at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks Josh....
>>>>
>>>> I'm hoping I didn't come off as harsh as that was not my intention.
>>>> Sometimes I do have problems getting my thoughts out correctly. If so I do
>>>> apologize.
>>>>
>>>
>>> You didn't come across as harsh. No need to apologize.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is the club I'll join. It seems like a club with good users.
>>>> Sure there is a difference of opinion but that is any club. Everyone was
>>>> nice and friendly. I think the club has a good future. Just gotta get
>>>> everyone back to being excited about it.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you for joining our club. I think you'll find its a good club and
>>> worth the investment of your time and effort.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Being everything to everyone is kinda hard to do in a club setting.
>>>> Everyone has different ideas on what the club should be.
>>>>
>>>> The future for the repeaters and etc... it would be nice to hear some
>>>> activity on the repeater.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I agree it would be nice to hear some activity outside of the Monday
>>> evening net, I have no room to talk here though because I am as guilty as
>>> anyone of not using the repeater.
>>>
>>>
>>>> I know with cell phones, ham radio is starting to taper off on
>>>> usage.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I agree with this with respect to the local repeater as a means to
>>> foster communication amongst hams in the local area. I also think that the
>>> ubiquity of emaill/instant messaging/text messaging has as much or more to
>>> do with this than the cell phone does. Just think 10 or 15 years ago we
>>> would probably be having this discussion on the repeater instead of over
>>> email. I don't necessarily think this is all a bad thing though. At least
>>> email is easier to store and keep a record of for later reference.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> This is the reason why I was talking about echolink. Since I'm not
>>>> usually in town but will be moving in soon.... I had a want to talk on the
>>>> local repeater up there. Would have been nice to be able to remote into
>>>> the repeater and strike up a convo about local stuff and start to make
>>>> friends. If someone is traveling that would also be a nice addition as
>>>> well. Echolink is now on smart phones so one can download it and boom
>>>> instant radio that works away from home.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Echolink is definitely interesting and a useful mode. I've experimented
>>> with it in the past and useful to access a local repeater when away from
>>> the area. Unfortunately as you've noticed there isn't much activity on our
>>> repeater currently so I'm not sure how much luck you would have had
>>> striking up a conversation even if it were accessible via echolink.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As of right now the digital repeaters in WV are as follows.....
>>>>
>>>> *DMR which is separated into two different link networks.*
>>>>
>>>> *DMR-MARC network - uses motorola dmr repeaters - has been active in
>>>> the states for some time*
>>>> Bluefield, WV 1 repeater
>>>> Beckley, WV 3 spread out to cover a lot of area.
>>>> See here for current map: http://www.dmr-marc.net/repeaters.html
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for the information and the link to the map. I am glad to know
>>> there is a presence in the Beckley area as it is where I am originally from
>>> and still travel there often to visit family. I may try to pick up a cheap
>>> DMR HT before I head down there the next time and try to access them. Do
>>> you have any recommendations for such an HT?
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *DMRPlus - uses hytera dmr repeaters*
>>>> None yet in WV but its just now getting started in the states.
>>>>
>>>> *FUSION*
>>>> Clarksburg 1 repeater
>>>> Pt. Pleasant 1 repeater
>>>>
>>>> *DSTAR*
>>>> Mount Hope 1 repeater
>>>>
>>>> Digital offers some nice features.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's definitely more bandwidth efficient and I also like the slow speed
>>> data and text messaging capabilities present in most digital solutions.
>>>
>>>
>>>> In doing some more research on fusion... i agree with you that it would
>>>> be nice to leave the current analog system online and put a digital system
>>>> in place as another repeater.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I think this is a requirement not just a nice to have. Like it or not
>>> Analog has too large of a footprint to just do away with anytime in the
>>> near future and its proven technology. I know our repeater has been used
>>> more than once to coordinate communications to areas otherwise cut off due
>>> to winter storms even as recently as 4 or 5 years ago. I was
>>> (un)fortunately out of town when that storm hit and was not able to
>>> participate so someone else on the list can provide more details of this
>>> event. I think until such time as everyone has digital radios and the
>>> system has proven itself to be as reliable there will be a lot of
>>> reluctance to get rid of the current analog system.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> To have the fusion in place of the analog system you would have to run
>>>> the output of the fusion in analog mode and the input in dual
>>>> digital/analog mode. That would almost defeat the purpose of digital as it
>>>> adds an analog route in. Sooooo my new suggestion based on the info I have
>>>> acquired. Install a new fusion repeater and then perhaps link it into the
>>>> analog system later on.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I like this idea. Unfortunately I do not know if space is available at
>>> the current repeater site or if we'd have to look for an alternate site to
>>> host a new repeater. It's something we should discuss as we go forward
>>> with deciding what the future of our repeater looks like.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Or perhaps start with a UHF DMR repeater then move to fusion a little
>>>> later on.
>>>>
>>>
>>> We currently have an analog repeater that is in some form of disrepair.
>>> I really like the idea of making our UHF frequencies our "experimental"
>>> repeater and I think we should investigate using any/all of the digital
>>> repeater modes on this frequency.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> DMR we could also link into the analog vhf repeater. Would be nice to
>>>> get a dmr repeater on the air at the university club as well..
>>>>
>>>
>>> As you might have noticed from some of the discussions the university
>>> club is pretty much defunct right now but Dr. Vanscoy is trying very hard
>>> to revive it. Hopefully she is successful and if she is we could embark on
>>> a project like this.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Could use the same talkgroups on both repeaters and have a wide link
>>>> network started.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Just curious - I know that with some of the digital modes (DSTAR in
>>> particular) linking over the air is not possible and all links must be over
>>> the internet. Is the same true for DMR or is it possible to link multiple
>>> DMR repeaters using only RF?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> So yes.... I will try to put together an info packet/presentation on
>>>> the digital systems for the next meeting.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you very much for trying to put this together. The next meeting
>>> will be on October 20. Would it be possible to let me know by the 13th if
>>> you will be able to put together the presentation or not so we have a bit
>>> of time to put together an alternate?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I'm hoping my DMR dongle has came in by then. If so I'll setup a DMR
>>>> hotspot and let the group take a test drive. I have been doing a few
>>>> months worth of research into different digital modes so I do have some
>>>> info handy.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Great. I am very interested in theys technology and would love to see
>>> it in action.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> As a side note.... how this reflector is setup.... its a tad hard to
>>>> carry on a good conversation. If you don't reply to the reflector you just
>>>> reply to the user and no one else really sees the reply.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The reflector is set up pretty much identically to any email list I have
>>> ever used and having been in the IT industry for a while I have subscribed
>>> and continue to subscribe to lots of mailing lists. Looking back at my
>>> reply it went to both you (in the to: field) and the list (in the cc:
>>> field) and looking at my email archive I did receive my reply via the list
>>> so all subscribers should have seen it. Please let me know if you have any
>>> specific questions regarding the list.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I'm in the process of setting up a DMR website that will hopefully
>>>> group some info together for those interested in DMR and possibly other
>>>> digital modes.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Great, I've spent some time reading a bit about DMR the past few
>>> evenings and while there is a lot of information out there it seems to be
>>> scattered all over the interwebs. A central place that collects a lot of
>>> this information would be very valuable.
>>>
>>>
>>>> I'm adding a forum in as well. I have a club forum setup on there as
>>>> well that is only avail to members of the club if anyone would be
>>>> interested. Otherwise perhaps we can setup a forum on the w8mwa page.
>>>>
>>> It would allow everyone to discuss club business in a better format
>>>> and have separate areas for members and non members of the club. Plus an
>>>> area to talk about anything and everything under the sun.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It's just my personal preference but I much prefer mailing lists for
>>> this type of discussion but by no means does my preference cary any weight.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Here is mine.... http://forum.dmrwv.com
>>>> It's a work in progress as I just started it.
>>>> Also if help is needed with the website I would be more than happy to
>>>> help. I have quite a bit of experience with websites etc.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you very much for the offer. Randy Crowe (N80ZY) and Bill Shultz
>>> (W8RS) are the primary care takers of the website. They are both
>>> subscribed to the list and I'm sure will be reading this. But do mention
>>> it to them during the next club meeting.
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Josh
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>
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