[TVARC] FW: N1MMLoggerPlus at groups.io Digest #130

Mon May 14 14:28:32 EDT 2018

Thanks Rich for info! We are still traveling been gone 6 weeks will be back
home in about 2 or 3 weeks. We have traveled over 13,000 miles on land and
ship so far.
See you soon.
KA9YKB Dan

On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 1:20 PM John Ellis <john.np2b at gmail.com> wrote:

> I was afraid of that since I was not seeing
> any enthusiasm from anybody re: FT-8 on
> Field Day. 😟
>
> John / NP2B
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 5:14 PM, George Briggs <k2dm at att.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi Rich,
>> Thank you for passing this along.  I, too, have been following
>> discussions of the possible use of
>> FT-8 in Field Day, and noted that, while one might find a clever way to
>> finagle FT-8 to send and
>> receive a Field Day exchange, it would not be practical to use that mode
>> for FD contacts.  However,
>> that does not mean that we cannot set up a digital station outside of
>> Field Day and use it for demos
>> and for our clubmates who are fans of the digital modes to operate.  I
>> look to those potential participants
>> in Field Day to help determine whether it would be worth the effort.
>> 73,
>> George, K2DM
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Rich Erlichman <rich.erlichman at gmail.com>
>> *To:* "'TVARC MailList at QSL.net'" <tvarc at mailman.qth.net>
>> *Sent:* Monday, May 14, 2018 12:28 PM
>> *Subject:* [TVARC] FW: N1MMLoggerPlus at groups.io Digest #130
>>
>> I suspect that maybe we should re-think the use of FT8 for Field Day, at
>> least until next year (maybe).
>> Pay particular attention to Message 7
>>
>> 73,
>> Rich, ND4G
>>
>> *From:* N1MMLoggerPlus at groups.io [mailto:N1MMLoggerPlus at groups.io] *On
>> Behalf Of *N1MMLoggerPlus at groups.io
>> *Sent:* Monday, May 14, 2018 2:06 AM
>> *To:* rich.erlichman at gmail.com
>> *Subject:* N1MMLoggerPlus at groups.io Digest #130
>>
>> [image: Text Box:]
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>> *Topics in this digest: *
>> .
>> 6.
>> FT8 for Field Day (3)
>> <http://undefined/?.partner=sbc&soc_src=mail&soc_trk=ma#35061>
>> 7.
>> FT8 and FD <http://undefined/?.partner=sbc&soc_src=mail&soc_trk=ma#35065>
>> *messages: *
>> *.*
>> 6a.
>> *FT8 for Field Day*
>> From: Anita Kemmerer
>> <akemmerer at anita-fred.net?subject=Re:%20FT8%20for%20Field%20Day>
>> Date: Sun, 13 May 2018 15:59:48 PDT
>> We are testing FT8 with N1MM for Field Day.  It does not appear that QSOs
>> with the mode FT8 are counting toward the score – they show up with zero
>> points.  Does the Field Day contest file need to be updated to support FT8
>> or is there something we are doing wrong?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Anita, AB1QB
>> View/Reply Online (3)
>> <https://groups.io/g/N1MMLoggerPlus/message/35061?reply=1> | Reply To
>> Group <N1MMLoggerPlus at groups.io?subject=Re:%20FT8%20for%20Field%20Day> | Reply
>> To Sender
>> <akemmerer at anita-fred.net?subject=Private:%20Re:%20FT8%20for%20Field%20Day>
>> | Mute This Topic <https://groups.io/mt/19196004/764424> | Top ^
>> <http://undefined/?.partner=sbc&soc_src=mail&soc_trk=ma#topics> | New
>> Topic <https://groups.io/g/N1MMLoggerPlus/post>
>> 6b.
>> *Re: FT8 for Field Day*
>> From: GIWagner at k5kg.com
>> <giwagner at k5kg.com?subject=Re:%20FT8%20for%20Field%20Day>
>> Date: Sun, 13 May 2018 16:36:24 PDT
>> Anita, I suggest you check with the ARRL Contest Manager regarding the
>> scoring of FT8 QSOS in FD.
>>
>> 73, George K5KG
>>
>> View/Reply Online (3)
>> <https://groups.io/g/N1MMLoggerPlus/message/35062?reply=1> | Reply To
>> Group <N1MMLoggerPlus at groups.io?subject=Re:%20FT8%20for%20Field%20Day> | Reply
>> To Sender
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>> Topic <https://groups.io/g/N1MMLoggerPlus/post>
>> 6c.
>> *Re: FT8 for Field Day*
>> From: ve3ki <ve3iay at gmail.com?subject=Re:%20FT8%20for%20Field%20Day>
>> Date: Sun, 13 May 2018 16:48:36 PDT
>> Do your FT8 QSOs in the N1MM+ log include the received exchange in the
>> correct columns in the log window? If not, they will be assigned zero
>> points.
>>
>> The standard FT8 QSO does not include the Field Day exchange. The only
>> way to send the FD exchange to another station in FT8 is to put it in a
>> free-text (13-character) message, most likely at the end of the QSO. It
>> would not be at all surprising if received free-text messages were not
>> passed on to N1MM+ at all. Even if they were passed on in a comment field,
>> N1MM+ would not recognize them as contest exchanges - there is no standard
>> format for comments that could be used to reliably extract exchange
>> information.
>>
>> I believe you will probably have to enter the received exchange into
>> N1MM+ by hand after the contact is logged. Following that, in order to get
>> the program to assign points to the contact and to record the dupe/non-dupe
>> status correctly, you will have to do a Tools > Rescore Current Contest.
>> You are going to have to rely on N1MM+'s worked/not worked (dupe/non-dupe)
>> status to tell you whether you can safely work another station or not,
>> because WSJT-X does not distinguish between bands when notifying you of
>> "worked before" status.
>>
>> It all seems very clumsy - you could probably complete two or three RTTY
>> or PSK63 contacts in the time it takes to make an FT8 QSO, take note of the
>> received exchange, edit the N1MM+ log to include the received exchange data
>> in the correct places, and rescore the contest in order to update the
>> worked/not worked status of that call sign in the N1MM+ log.
>>
>> FT8 will probably work well enough in a VHF contest where the only
>> exchange data is grid square information that is already included in the
>> FT8 protocol, but trying to adapt FT8 for other contests seems a bit like a
>> courier service trying to adapt a race car to deliver small packages - no
>> doubt it can be done with enough ingenuity, but why?
>>
>> 73,
>> Rich VE3KI
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> View/Reply Online (3)
>> <https://groups.io/g/N1MMLoggerPlus/message/35063?reply=1> | Reply To
>> Group <N1MMLoggerPlus at groups.io?subject=Re:%20FT8%20for%20Field%20Day> | Reply
>> To Sender
>> <ve3iay at gmail.com?subject=Private:%20Re:%20FT8%20for%20Field%20Day> | Mute
>> This Topic <https://groups.io/mt/19196004/764424> | Top ^
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>> Topic <https://groups.io/g/N1MMLoggerPlus/post>
>> 7a.
>> *FT8 and FD*
>> From: John N2HMM <n2hmm at warwick.net?subject=Re:%20FT8%20and%20FD>
>> Date: Sun, 13 May 2018 17:29:31 PDT
>> This past Friday I went to a presentation by Joe Taylor K1JT the
>> principle software designer of FT8, JT65, WSPR etc.  It was very
>> interesting stuff.
>>
>> But he specifically mentioned that FT8 is not designed for a contests
>> like Field Day and should not be used for FD.  The ARRL agrees with this
>> viewpoint (I called to ask their opinion).
>>
>> At the moment they are working on a Beta version called "FT8 DXpedition
>> Mode" but it's not ready for full release.  After it is released (they've
>> had three trial tests already) a "FT8 Contest Mode" will be developed.
>> There will be a 2 to 3dB penalty in sensitivity since they'll have to
>> accommodate a longer string of characters (wider bandwidth).  A small price
>> to pay during a solar minimum.  So maybe next year.
>>
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> John
>> N2HMM
>>
>> View/Reply Online (1)
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>
> --
>
> John Ellis         (NP2B)
> 1149 Mockingbird Lane
> The Villages, FL 32163
>
> telephone 352 633-2910
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