[TVARC] FW: N1MMLoggerPlus at groups.io Digest #130

Mon May 14 14:17:23 EDT 2018

I was afraid of that since I was not seeing
any enthusiasm from anybody re: FT-8 on
Field Day. 😟

John / NP2B

On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 5:14 PM, George Briggs <k2dm at att.net> wrote:

> Hi Rich,
> Thank you for passing this along.  I, too, have been following discussions
> of the possible use of
> FT-8 in Field Day, and noted that, while one might find a clever way to
> finagle FT-8 to send and
> receive a Field Day exchange, it would not be practical to use that mode
> for FD contacts.  However,
> that does not mean that we cannot set up a digital station outside of
> Field Day and use it for demos
> and for our clubmates who are fans of the digital modes to operate.  I
> look to those potential participants
> in Field Day to help determine whether it would be worth the effort.
> 73,
> George, K2DM
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Rich Erlichman <rich.erlichman at gmail.com>
> *To:* "'TVARC MailList at QSL.net'" <tvarc at mailman.qth.net>
> *Sent:* Monday, May 14, 2018 12:28 PM
> *Subject:* [TVARC] FW: N1MMLoggerPlus at groups.io Digest #130
>
> I suspect that maybe we should re-think the use of FT8 for Field Day, at
> least until next year (maybe).
> Pay particular attention to Message 7
>
> 73,
> Rich, ND4G
>
> *From:* N1MMLoggerPlus at groups.io [mailto:N1MMLoggerPlus at groups.io] *On
> Behalf Of *N1MMLoggerPlus at groups.io
> *Sent:* Monday, May 14, 2018 2:06 AM
> *To:* rich.erlichman at gmail.com
> *Subject:* N1MMLoggerPlus at groups.io Digest #130
>
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> *Topics in this digest: *
> .
> 6.
> FT8 for Field Day (3)
> <http://undefined/?.partner=sbc&soc_src=mail&soc_trk=ma#35061>
> 7.
> FT8 and FD <http://undefined/?.partner=sbc&soc_src=mail&soc_trk=ma#35065>
> *messages: *
> *.*
> 6a.
> *FT8 for Field Day*
> From: Anita Kemmerer
> <akemmerer at anita-fred.net?subject=Re:%20FT8%20for%20Field%20Day>
> Date: Sun, 13 May 2018 15:59:48 PDT
> We are testing FT8 with N1MM for Field Day.  It does not appear that QSOs
> with the mode FT8 are counting toward the score – they show up with zero
> points.  Does the Field Day contest file need to be updated to support FT8
> or is there something we are doing wrong?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Anita, AB1QB
> View/Reply Online (3)
> <https://groups.io/g/N1MMLoggerPlus/message/35061?reply=1> | Reply To
> Group <N1MMLoggerPlus at groups.io?subject=Re:%20FT8%20for%20Field%20Day> | Reply
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> 6b.
> *Re: FT8 for Field Day*
> From: GIWagner at k5kg.com
> <giwagner at k5kg.com?subject=Re:%20FT8%20for%20Field%20Day>
> Date: Sun, 13 May 2018 16:36:24 PDT
> Anita, I suggest you check with the ARRL Contest Manager regarding the
> scoring of FT8 QSOS in FD.
>
> 73, George K5KG
>
> View/Reply Online (3)
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> 6c.
> *Re: FT8 for Field Day*
> From: ve3ki <ve3iay at gmail.com?subject=Re:%20FT8%20for%20Field%20Day>
> Date: Sun, 13 May 2018 16:48:36 PDT
> Do your FT8 QSOs in the N1MM+ log include the received exchange in the
> correct columns in the log window? If not, they will be assigned zero
> points.
>
> The standard FT8 QSO does not include the Field Day exchange. The only way
> to send the FD exchange to another station in FT8 is to put it in a
> free-text (13-character) message, most likely at the end of the QSO. It
> would not be at all surprising if received free-text messages were not
> passed on to N1MM+ at all. Even if they were passed on in a comment field,
> N1MM+ would not recognize them as contest exchanges - there is no standard
> format for comments that could be used to reliably extract exchange
> information.
>
> I believe you will probably have to enter the received exchange into N1MM+
> by hand after the contact is logged. Following that, in order to get the
> program to assign points to the contact and to record the dupe/non-dupe
> status correctly, you will have to do a Tools > Rescore Current Contest.
> You are going to have to rely on N1MM+'s worked/not worked (dupe/non-dupe)
> status to tell you whether you can safely work another station or not,
> because WSJT-X does not distinguish between bands when notifying you of
> "worked before" status.
>
> It all seems very clumsy - you could probably complete two or three RTTY
> or PSK63 contacts in the time it takes to make an FT8 QSO, take note of the
> received exchange, edit the N1MM+ log to include the received exchange data
> in the correct places, and rescore the contest in order to update the
> worked/not worked status of that call sign in the N1MM+ log.
>
> FT8 will probably work well enough in a VHF contest where the only
> exchange data is grid square information that is already included in the
> FT8 protocol, but trying to adapt FT8 for other contests seems a bit like a
> courier service trying to adapt a race car to deliver small packages - no
> doubt it can be done with enough ingenuity, but why?
>
> 73,
> Rich VE3KI
>
>
>
>
>
> View/Reply Online (3)
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> 7a.
> *FT8 and FD*
> From: John N2HMM <n2hmm at warwick.net?subject=Re:%20FT8%20and%20FD>
> Date: Sun, 13 May 2018 17:29:31 PDT
> This past Friday I went to a presentation by Joe Taylor K1JT the principle
> software designer of FT8, JT65, WSPR etc.  It was very interesting stuff.
>
> But he specifically mentioned that FT8 is not designed for a contests like
> Field Day and should not be used for FD.  The ARRL agrees with this
> viewpoint (I called to ask their opinion).
>
> At the moment they are working on a Beta version called "FT8 DXpedition
> Mode" but it's not ready for full release.  After it is released (they've
> had three trial tests already) a "FT8 Contest Mode" will be developed.
> There will be a 2 to 3dB penalty in sensitivity since they'll have to
> accommodate a longer string of characters (wider bandwidth).  A small price
> to pay during a solar minimum.  So maybe next year.
>
>
> 73,
>
> John
> N2HMM
>
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-- 

John Ellis         (NP2B)
1149 Mockingbird Lane
The Villages, FL 32163

telephone 352 633-2910
facsimile  352 633-0401
mobile     340 513-4928
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