[TrunkCom] Trunk-tracking Help

[Todd Hartzel]

Greetings Jeff,
       I am indeed leaning into that direction.  On your comment of
Patched-Talkgroup.  I'm just alittle curious of why on a privately
used short-range, low-use Type II TRS, why they would be using 
Patched Talkgroups.  If it were a Public Safety TRS (such as
St Louis Police, they use Patching), I would understand why it
was being used.  But on a low-use Private Business TRS?  Its
a mystery to me as to why they would choose to use it.  I mean
these patched talkgroups, are always patched together, day-night,
spring-fall, busy-not busy.  

I could better understand it if they used 'Patching' for a Temporary
situation, such as a large convention, or multiple conventions all
taking place at the same time.  America's Center has numerous
independent convention halls available.  They could, if needed,
handle at least 4 separate conventions all at once.  If not more.
They certainly have the space fior it.  That is certainly, NOT in
dispute.  (Plus the Footbal DOME, formerly TWA Dome).

The problem for this, is that if they took on several differant
Conventions all at the sametime, downtown would not be able
to handle the enormous crowds.  

That situation would warrant the use of Talkgroup 'Patching'
for sure.  But, that is not the norm here in St Louis.  See there's
also a saying.  Just because you have the capability (or feature),
doesn't mean you have to use it.  

Anyway, I am leaning towards the idea that its probably 
unnecessary Talkgroup 'Patching'.  Temporary patching would
be understandable, but 24/7 patching on a low-use exclusively-
used Business TRS.  Weird........  One has to ask, why?.......

Obviously the TRS Admins want to use all the features of Type II, 
even if its not necessary to do so.



 




On 19 Mar 2002 at 16:34, JEFFREY MICHAEL KENYON wrote:

> Hi Todd and Scott.  I don't really want to get into a thread about making
> a private call, but I would imagine that on your system that abiliis
> limited in terms of access.  However, when you do go in to make a private
> call on a trunked system which we can't usually monitor when you change
> modes on your radio you are asking the system controler to create a
> temporary talk group for you and the person that you want to private
> call.  I would doubt that ability is given to very many people since it
> could get abused, and people would be off of the talk group they need to
> be on.  Your system does seem to have fleets patched to one another, but
> in most cases if you see black dots on your 245 I think that this is a
> private call.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, 19 Mar 2002, Todd Hartzel wrote:
> 
> > Greetings Scott,
> >         My only guess is that, for whatever reason (Might be a few),
> > your trunktrackers are picking up (Private Trunk Comms).  Normally
> > the 235xlt & 245xlt pickup the 'P' status, and ignore such comms
> > while in the 'Trunk' Mode.   But, I believe it might be possible for 
> > our Trunktrackers to receive it as a 'Group' or normal talkgroup 
> > comms. 
> > 
> > Here in St Louis, Missouri the 'P' status is used for what the Police
> > Officers call 'SmartLine' comms.  Or Private-Line.  
> > 
> > Of course, on the 780xlt, this 'Private-Line' comms is refered to
> > as 'I-Call'.
> > 
> > I've noticed this problem with a local Trunk System here in St Louis,
> > Missouri.  Its the 'America's Center / TWA Dome' system.  (Well,
> > formerly TWA Dome).
> > 
> > Same problem as yours:  conversations taking place on talkgroup
> > IDs that are not logically space apart, as to conform to the normal
> > Type I arrangement.  (Does not fit the Size Code selections available
> > within the programming of our TrunkTrackers).
> > 
> > With this system, I can not seem to find a way to use a single 
> > Size Code, that conforms to place same-conversations onto the
> > same Talkgroup IDs.  In other words, get all of the same comms
> > onto the same ID groups.
> > 
> > So, I've come to the conclusion that the Trunktracker is Receiving
> > those comms as a Talkgroup (for whatever reason), though I believe
> > they are actually suppose to be 'I-Call' comms or Private-Line.
> > 
> > In St Louis, Missouri ; that would be 'SmartLine' comms.
> > 
> > If this is so, I can only speculate as to why our Trunktrackers are
> > interpretating those 'I-Call' IDs as normal Talkgroup comms.
> > 
> > I should point out, that this problem is only with a few IDs that 
> > appear within the Block #7 span.  (For the America's Center system).
> > The remaining talkgroups within Block #7, all conform perfectly
> > to Type II (All divisable by 16, and the various comms stay on the
> > evenly divisable-by-16 Type II talkgroups).  
> > 
> > I should also point out, that I have made every effort to eliminate
> > reception problems as the cause or possible cause of this effect.
> > It happens no matter how close or how far I am located from the 
> > Trunk system.  One day, I even resorted to parking my car on
> > Laclede's Landing, just to the north of the MLK bridge in downtown.
> > Reception of the America's Center Data Channel was perfect 100%
> > signal copy.  I even removed the antenna, just to prove that 
> > reception was not the problem.  The signal strength was still
> > near 100% copy.  
> > 
> > The problem still continued.  For those that might be interested 
> > in taking a crack at this very interesting problem on this TRS.
> > I welcome you to visit St Louis, Missouri and program in the
> > America's Center / TWA Dome TRS into any Trunktracker
> > scanner you may own:
> > 
> > - 857.2375
> > - 857.9375
> > - 858.7375
> > - 859-7375
> > - 860.7375
> > 
> > http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-
> > bin/ws.exe/genmen/uls/call_res.hts?db_id=19&rows=&callsign=WPGU376
> > 
> > or go here, then select 'CALLSIGN', and type in:  WPGU376
> > 
> > http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/genmen/index.hts
> > 
> > It is basically a Motorola Type II system, with those noted issues 
> > listed above.  Blocks used:
> > 
> > Block #0
> > Block #6
> > Block #7
> > 
> > Block #7 is the one that has the problem talkgroups.
> > Most of the talkgroups in Block #7 behave correctly.
> > Its only a select few that have this issue.
> > 
> > I invite your comments if you choose to take on this
> > unique situation.  I believe this problem is not really wide
> > spread.  But based on the last post to Trunkcom, obviously,
> > the problem is not a St Louis, Missouri ONLY problem.
> > 
> > I welcome your comments, if, you choose to try it.
> > 
> > 73...
> > 
> > On 19 Mar 2002 at 3:42, Scott Baldwin wrote:
> > 
> > > Hello to the list.
> > > 
> > > I'm trying to set up my BC-245 and BC-895 to track the trunking system at 
> > > the Vacaville CMF Prison site.  Their frequencies are 857-860.2625.
> > > 
> > > I started off in E2 mode, and noticed the ID's changed between radio 
> > > users.  So I assume it to be a Type-1 system.  Setting it in E1 Mode, I 
> > > chose S-14 as my size.  Even though this is an unusual size, I chose it 
> > > because I had caught traffic with an ID of 37217 and the reply came back on 
> > > 34135.
> > > 
> > > Using the method of lowest ID and highest ID, the difference is 3082, 
> > > meaning at least THAT many users used block 4.  Since S-13 has a max of 
> > > 2048 users, and S-14 is the next with 4096 users, for this reason I chose S-14.
> > > 
> > > Now here's my problem.  I was monitoring the other day and a call came out 
> > > with an ID of 000-9 and a reply came back on 000-8.  It was the same 
> > > conversation.  My BC-245 was still set on E2, and I noted ID 38374 and 
> > > 34267, respectively.  The problem as you can see is that the number of IDS 
> > > (difference between the two) is 4107.  This exceeds the max of 4096 as used 
> > > for a Type 1.
> > > 
> > > Does anyone know what kind of system this is, if it's not Type-1 or 
> > > Type-2?  I have tried Edacs and LTR, but I either don't know how to set 
> > > these systems up in my scanner, or they're not that either, as I've tried 
> > > programming them in, but they don't track at all.  It's as if they don't 
> > > see the control channel.
> > > 
> > > Thanks in advance.
> > > Scott
> > > N6UUH
> > 
> > 
> > 73 from todd hartzel / n0vkg
> > http://www.icon-stl.net/~toddh
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
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> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/trunkcom
> > 
> 
> 
> 



73 from todd hartzel / n0vkg
http://www.icon-stl.net/~toddh