[TheForge] Renaissance wax formula

dhayes at dthayes.com dhayes at dthayes.com
Tue Sep 30 17:31:44 EDT 2025 

Lorne,

Absolutely. The same can be said for any source of information. Without exception sources have bias, and many have demonstrable factual errors, be the source internet based, scholarly research papers,, medical references, industrial handbooks, hobby books, or whatever. The need to vet and confirm remains the same. If I have a concern about AI, it is more over the bias being built into the training data repositories and vector databases. Bias is insidious. Factual errors tend to be a bit easier to pick up on. But, as you point out, they are there, and abundant.

Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net <theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net> On Behalf Of lorne at smithlist.net
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2025 4:19 PM
To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [TheForge] Renaissance wax formula

A word of caution on the AI. While very useful and a pretty big timesaver it is a master of slipping absolute fluff into its responses and wrapping it up so it looks like it belongs. I have even had it slip in simple math mistakes, something it really shouldn't do.

Verify everything when you can.

Cheers,
Lorne

On 2025-09-30 16:10, dhayes at dthayes.com wrote:
> Mark,
> 
> AI can be very effective at digging deep into questions like that. The 
> amount of information being entered into the databases is downright 
> scarey (but that's another subject, more for forums like the old 
> ARTmetal mailing list). Not only does AI come up with deep dive 
> answers to direct questions but it also suggests where to go with the 
> answers and dive deeper. Anyway, here is the AI response to the direct 
> question on sources of high quality microcrystalline wax as well and 
> the first follow up question and answer. The responses can get quite 
> lengthy so I tried to keep it to a length appropriate for this list. 
> Questions and answers separated by asterisks. Hope you find it helpful.
> 
> **********
> 
> "Please find a source for high-grade microcrystalline wax. General Wax 
> in California may be one. Are there others?"
> 
> **********
> 
> Yes, Daniel — General Wax is one option, but here are several other 
> reputable suppliers of high-grade microcrystalline wax worth
> considering:
> 🏭 Top Suppliers of Microcrystalline Wax
> 
> 1. IGI Wax (International Group, Inc.)
> - Location: Texas-based, serving North America
> - Grades: Cosmetic, food, and industrial-grade waxes
> - Specs: Melt points from 145°F to 194°F; hardness from 7 to 36 ASTM
> D1321
> - Formats: Bulk liquid, granules, pellets, slabs
> - Highlights: Offers custom blends and has a fully integrated supply 
> chain
> 
> 2. Blended Waxes Inc.
> - Location: Wisconsin
> - Grades: BW-405 to BW-431, ranging from soft/tacky to hard/brittle
> - Specs: Melt points from 145°F to 195°F; FDA-compliant for food and 
> cosmetic use
> - Applications: Cosmetics, candles, adhesives, coatings, sculpting
> - Highlights: Over 45 years of experience in custom wax blends
> 
> 3. King Honor International
> - Location: China (bulk export available)
> - Grades: M70, M80, and hydrogenated variants
> - Certifications: ISO9001
> - Applications: Chewing gum, cosmetics, dental materials, industrial 
> coatings
> - Highlights: Competitive pricing and broad product range for global 
> buyers
> 
> 1) igiwax.com
> 2) blendwaxes.com
> 3) www.khonorwax.com
> 
> If you're looking for domestic sourcing with high purity and 
> customization, IGI and Blended Waxes are especially strong contenders.
> Want help comparing melt points, oil content, or bulk pricing across 
> these? I can model that next.
> 
> **********
> 
> "yes"
> 
> **********
> 
> Here are several verified sources for high-grade microcrystalline wax, 
> including General Wax and others that cater to industrial, cosmetic, 
> and conservation-grade needs:
> 🧪 Verified Suppliers of Microcrystalline Wax
> 
> Supplier:
> Location:
> Grade Offered:
> Notable Features:
> 
> Supplier: General Wax & Candle Co.
> Location: North Hollywood, CA
> Grade Offered: Cosmetic, candle, industrial Notable Features: Known 
> for custom blends and bulk supply
> 
> Supplier: IGI Wax (International Group, Inc.)
> Location: Houston, TX
> Grade Offered: Food, cosmetic, industrial Notable Features: Offers 
> high-purity waxes with detailed spec sheets
> 
> Supplier: Blended Waxes Inc.
> Location: Oshkosh, WI
> Grade Offered: BW-405 to BW-431
> Notable Features: FDA-compliant, tailored blends for conservation and 
> cosmetics
> 
> Supplier: Paramelt B.V.
> Location: Netherlands (global distribution) Grade Offered: 
> Microcrystalline and paraffin blends Notable Features: High-end waxes 
> for packaging, coatings, and pharma
> 
> Supplier: King Honor International
> Location: China
> Grade Offered: M70, M80, hydrogenated
> Notable Features: Bulk export, ISO-certified, competitive pricing
> 
> Supplier: Strahl & Pitsch Inc.
> Location: West Babylon, NY
> Grade Offered: SP-89, SP-105, SP-179
> Notable Features: Premium grades for cosmetics, dental, and 
> conservation use
> 
> 🧭 Tips for Sourcing
> •	Conservation-grade: Strahl & Pitsch is often preferred for museum and 
> archival use (e.g., Renaissance Wax replication).
> •	Bulk industrial: IGI and Paramelt offer robust supply chains and 
> technical support.
> •	Custom blends: Blended Waxes and General Wax are flexible for 
> small-batch or specialty formulations.
> 
> Would you like help comparing melt points, oil content, or sourcing 
> samples for testing? I can model specs or help draft outreach language.
> 
> **********
> 
> Getting the above answers took seconds, re-formatting the table into 
> test-only mailing list format much longer.
> 
> AI is an incredibly useful research tool but it can also be deep and 
> tempting  rabbit hole to fall into.
> 
> Dan
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net 
> <theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net> On Behalf Of Mark Williams via 
> TheForge
> Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2025 3:16 AM
> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Renaissance wax formula
> 
> Dan,
> If you can find a source for high-grade microcrystalline wax let me 
> know. I found one source as General Wax located in California. In 
> looking through my collection of old containers, I found some wax I 
> had made a long while ago but the spirit has gone. I'll try to melt 
> this outdoors and mix white spirit with it, storing the result in 
> screwtop glass jars so the spirits don't depart.
> 
> Mark
> Snow Hill, MD
>> On 09/27/2025 12:00 PM EDT dhayes at dthayes.com wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I've been using search engines like Google for years to research and 
>> look up just about everything and have always been amazed at how much 
>> information is out there and how effective you can be at finding it.
>> AI is taking it to a whole new level. I entered the following in 
>> Copilot (more business oriented, probably not the best AI tool for 
>> researching something like this):
>> 
>> "What is the formula Brian Gilbert published in the Hammer's Blow 
>> some years ago for microcrystalline wax & white spirits and that 
>> replicated Renaissance Wax?"
>> 
>> The following is what AI had to say:
>> 
>> *****
>> Brian Gilbert’s formula, published in The Hammer’s Blow (a 
>> publication of the Artist-Blacksmith’s Association of North America), 
>> was a DIY attempt to replicate the properties of Renaissance Wax 
>> using accessible materials. While the exact article isn't publicly 
>> archived online, the formula he shared has circulated widely among 
>> conservation and metalworking communities. Here's the core recipe 
>> attributed to
>> Gilbert:
>> 🧪 Brian Gilbert’s Renaissance Wax Replica Formula
>> - Microcrystalline wax: 1 part by weight
>> - White spirits (mineral spirits): 2 parts by weight
>> 🧯 Preparation Notes
>> - Gently heat the white spirits in a double boiler setup (never over 
>> direct flame due to flammability).
>> - Slowly add the microcrystalline wax, stirring until fully dissolved.
>> - Allow the mixture to cool and solidify in a sealed container.
>> This blend mimics the consistency and protective qualities of 
>> Renaissance Wax—clear, non-acidic, and moisture-resistant—ideal for 
>> metal, wood, and leather surfaces. Some users tweak the ratio 
>> slightly for a softer or firmer finish, and a few add polyethylene 
>> wax for closer fidelity to the original Renaissance formula.
>> 
>> Would you like help sourcing high-grade microcrystalline wax or 
>> adjusting the formula for specific applications like firearms, 
>> optics, or archival preservation.
>> 
>> *******
>> Anyway, AI makes researching arcane subjects easy (not that 
>> blacksmithing is arcane but much of what is published tends to be a 
>> bit off the mainstream).
>> 
>> Dan
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net 
>> <theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net> On Behalf Of Mark Williams via 
>> TheForge
>> Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2025 11:02 AM
>> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>; 
>> Bruce <freemab222 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Renaissance wax formula
>> 
>> Thanks for the help. I wrote the info down. Seems that site wants you 
>> to join for monthly $$ in order to download. I'll let you know how it 
>> works.
>> 
>> Mark
>> > On 09/27/2025 8:13 AM EDT Bruce <freemab222 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Hey, Mark,
>> >
>> > I don't have that issue, but I used my usual trick of searching the 
>> > internet (Google or Duckduckgo) with your phrase, "formula that 
>> > used microcrystalline wax & white spirits and replicated Renaissance Wax"
>> > and got a hit or two that way.
>> > https://www.scribd.com/document/333585278/Renaissance-Wax-Recipe#:~:
>> > te
>> > xt=The%20recipe%20for%20our%20Renaissance,1kg%20batch%20of%20combin
>> > e
>> > d%
>> > 20wax
>> > .
>> >
>> > All the best,
>> >
>> > Bruce
>> > NJ
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sat, Sep 27, 2025 at 2:34 AM Mark Williams via TheForge < 
>> > theforge at mailman.qth.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Some years ago, Brian Gilbert published in the Hammer's Blow a 
>> > > formula that used microcrystalline wax & white spirits and 
>> > > replicated Renaissance Wax. I have misplaced my copy of the 
>> > > formula and hoped that one of you could remember  and send it.
>> > >
>> > > Thanks in advance
>> > > Mark Williams
>> > > Snow Hill, MD
>> > > ______________________________________________________________
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