[TheForge] blacksmith stores and/or supplies

[jerry Frost]

Four burner forges are typically commercial forges or beginner mistakes.
I've been hammering hot steel for going on 50 years now and almost never
need more than a 2 burner forge. Even then a 350 cu/in forge with a pass
through in the rear will heat anything that doesn't include large 3D
components is more than enough. 

Also ITC-100 isn't formulated for propane forge use, it was intended as a
release agent so kiln glazes and similar in large commercial furnace
wouldn't cement pottery or other stuff to the inside of kilns and furnaces.
As a release agent it remains chalky and doesn't hold up against mechanical
erosion. It's roughly 70% zirconium silicate and a propane forge can't over
heat it. You CAN rub it off though and have you checked the price? The last
I looked a 1 pint can of premixed ITC-100 was more than $125. 

Plistex 900 on the other hand vitrifies to a coffee mug hard surface and is
a high alumina refractory so forge welding fluxes have no effect on it and
sharp COLd steel edges won't damage it. 

I HIGHLY recommend you cover the ceramic refractory blanked, with a water
setting high alumina castable hard refractory. Kaowool being one of many
equivalent brands, the only safe assumption to make about them is, loose
particle are a breathing hazard on the order of silica dust, especially
after it's been exposed to high heat. The particles of vitrified ceramic
fiber WILL break and float around your breathable air. Think mesotheleoma
type lung damage and disease.

Plastering the inside surface with a hard refractory not only completely
isolates the blanket from exposure it's concrete hard armor. The current
favorite amongst the Iforge crowd is Kastolite 30 li. It's a, 3,000f, water
SETTING high alumina bubble refractory. It has a working mx temp of 3,000f,
is resistant to caustic fluxes and the "bubbes" are evacuated silica spheres
that increase it's insulating properties. 

It's also a highly recommended practice to rigidize the ceramic blanket with
fumed (colloidal) silica by spritzing it on with a spray bottle. Fumed
silica is commonly available from plastics / fiberglass suppliers, it's used
mostly to thicken resins so it doesn't run off the mold. A little food
coloring in the mix will let you know when you have a reasonably even coat.

Place the ceramic blanket, wet it with plain clean fresh water then
rigidize. Allow it to dry and heat cure to dull red this will vitrify the
silica at fiber junctions, making it stiffer and partially encapsulating
fibers. 

Once heat cured, butter it (spritz it with clean water) and plaster it with
about 3/8" thick layer of water setting hard refractory. Once set and cured
kiln wash it with your chosen product, ITC-100 used to be the only thing
available but there are much better products for a fraction of the price. I
like Plistex 900 but there are other equivalent products. Mix it to about
thick latex paint consistency and brush it on in several thin coats allowing
it to dry between. Many thin coats are much less likely to shrink check or
flake than single thick coats. 

Wayne Coe sells small quantities for reasonable so you don't have to buy a
50lb sack when all you need is 10lbs. http://waynecoeartistblacksmith.com/

If you use a water SETTING refractory you have to treat it like portland
cement concrete. It does NOT DRY, it hydrates forming interlocking crystals,
just like hydraulic concrete does. Its a different form of lime and takes
extreme heat and rapid thermal cycling but you have to do it right. After
mixing it thoroughly you'll have a window of working time, Kastolite
typically begins setting in about 45 minutes. Once set it NEEDS to cure in
100% humidity for at least a day, a week is better but a day will do. I put
the whole forge in a plastic tote with a couple gallons of water and put the
lid on for a couple days. Another good method is to put a wet towel in the
forge and seal it in a plastic garbage bag. 

While you CAN get away with putting Kastolite directly to work after it sets
that doesn't make for the best forge liner. Nor do you need to kiln wash it
but a good kiln wash is a last layer of armor to make the liner last longer
and improves the IR reradiation properties of the liner.

Another forge I highly recommend for new folk or folk not knowing just what
they want or need is the venerable "Brick Pile" forge. Yeah, it's fire brick
(FB) stacked to make a hollow chamber with a burner poked in a gap or
drilled hole Do NOT use hard fire brick, they are a tremendous heat sink so
you get to spend a LOT MORE $ on propane getting them hot and keeping them
hot. They have about the same insulating properties as an equal thickness of
limestone. R1 = 1 FOOT of limestone.

I use Morgan Thermal Ceramics, K-26 IFBs (Insulating Fire Brick). They have
a max rated working temp of 2,600f and withstand the rapid thermal cycling a
propane forge enjoys. They are nearly as good insulation as ceramic blanket,
not quite but they're tougher and not so much of a breathing hazard. I was
amazed to discover K26 IFBs were less than 1/2 the price of the old type IFB
that lasted MAYBE 2-3 forging sessions before breaking up. Seriously old
type were around $12 ea. before the club discount and K26 are around $4 ea.
before the club discount. 

I just bought a case and use them to experiment with before I weld up a
forge body and line it. Size, shape, # of burners, etc. I can use and get
the feel for a size and shape before I make a permanent unit. The IFBs go
back in their box and nap out of my way till I need or want to use them. 

A dozen IFBs and a 1/2" T burner make a perfectly usable forge that easily
reaches welding temps and is perfect for knives. The chamber is roughly 4.5"
x 4.5" x 9" with a 1/2" burner. The club built IIRC 13 at a 2 day, burner
and forge build clinic. They all got a final coat of Plistex 900 and unless
I haven't heard, not one member who made/ bought one has replaced it with
larger. Several of our members are professional bladesmiths, one specializes
in hawks, hatchets and axes.

Yeah, I know this has turned into a typical Frosty journal but I've been
making the things a while and it's  common topic of discussion. And yeah,
I'm the "T burner," Frosty

Frosty

-----Original Message-----
From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
[mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of dann at wctatel.net
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2021 5:47 AM
To: terry l. ridder; Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA
Subject: Re: [TheForge] blacksmith stores and/or supplies



Terry,

There continues to be good advertisements in ABANA magazines,  Hammer's
Blow  and Anvil's Ring.  ABANA had  an online presence, last I checked.     

Centaur Forge  has long  been my equivalent to a Sear's catalog dream book
for  Blacksmithing.  They  have a physical store, and a strong  online
presence at Centaur Forge out of Burlington, Wisconsin.   They hosted Fall 
Hammer Ins for the UMBA chapter of  ABANA .    When I damaged my Whisper
Momma Forge melting brass and aluminum,  a decade or two back,   I went to
Centaur Forge and  bought replacement Kao Wool for my Whisper Momma Forge. 
4 or 5 years ago,  I bought  a Whisper Daddy knife maker's forge from 
Centaur Forge. https://www.centaurforge.com      When I looked it up, just
now,  it appears that they still print a physical paper catalog.

Ron Reil style burners are available in stainless steel with connectors and
hoses for $60  a pair on EBAY.   As is Kao Wool and probably ITC- 100 I
picked up enough of the component stuff on EBAY  to make a pottery kiln a
couple years back.

Having enough energy level to think about hammering steel after Surviving
the Chemo Therapy is already a good start back into blacksmithing!

Dann Johnson 




 



On Sat, March 27, 2021 10:25
am, terry l. ridder wrote:
> hello
>
> Would
anyone have an update-to-date of blacksmith stores and/or
>
suppliess? I am trying to get back into small blacksmithing projects for
> my own personal use. The SCA woodfire spit set based on the
woodcut is a
> goal to aim for. I have been out of the loop for
several years.
>
> working on getting my 4 burner "Ron
Reil" forge operating again.
> Using a 1/4 inch pipe extractor I
was able to salvage most of the
> piping. The forge was serriously
damaged when I hit it over with the
> kubota tractor's bucket bu
accident. Need to recoat the interior with
> ITC-100.
>
> my biggest challange is to recover from chemotherapy and the damage
it
> has caused. recover from the incredible fatigue. Slowly I am
getting
> back on my feet, not to stable yet but gettting
there.
>
>
> --
> terry l. ridder
><>
>