[TheForge] Phosphate? (Ping Bruce the chemist)

[Bruce .]

Mike,

Ferric phosphate would be present as the dihydride, so water would account
for some of the extra volume.

However, there's no reason to presume the stuff is pure.  Maybe there's
some organic gunk present, increasing the volume.  Bacteria grow in strange
environments and often produce a "matrix" (think "snot") to live in.

On that note, I don't recommend you use it as a fertilizer without first
being sure it contains no toxic elements -- and that would require an
analysis.  If you're buddies with someone with a scanning electron
microscope, that might give you a quick qualitative analysis.  There are
probably some wet chemical assays, but typically you need a number of
reagent-grade chemicals to do those, and it's not worth it.

Do yourself a favor and buy some bone meal or other high-phosphorus
fertilizer for your garden.

If you want to find a use for the gunk, I suggest trying it as a
rust-proofing coating for steel.  Maybe applying it to hot (>500 F; >250 C)
steel would do the trick.

Bruce
NJ

On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 1:49 AM, Mike Spencer <mspencer at tallships.ca> wrote:

>
> Thanks Bruce & parkej7.
>
> The reason I feel confused is that there's an awful *lot* of the gray
> grit.  I can't figure out how, with the amout of pickling I can
> recall doing, there could have been enough iron in solution to make a
> maybe four measuring cups or more of iron (anything) phosphate
> crystals.  Where did all that "extra" mass come from?
>
> > Why not try it on two identical bars?  Heat both to red, set one
> > aside (as a control), and treat the other with the gunk.  Set them
> > out in the weather and keep an eye on them.
>
> Good idea.  We'll see what happens.
>
> > ...may have value as a fertilizer.
>
> I was hoping.  My source of fish scrap dried up long ago and the guy
> who was giving me a couple of loads of cattle manure a year (and
> loading it  for me as well!) had to give up his cattle for health
> reasons.  So some extra phosphorus would be good.
>
> Ob smithing: If you get phosphoric acid at just the right dilution
> and. after pickling clean, simply wipe the workpiece down with paper
> towels to dry it -- no water rinse or abrasives -- you can get a gray
> finish that is resistant to rust in high humidity environments.  Not
> resistant if it gets actually wet, though.  I have a demo piece that I
> made in the early 80s finished that way that showed no rust after
> sitting around in my (former) unheated seaside shop for 20 years.
> Other demo pieces stored in the same place were red & furry with rust.
> Now there are a few little rust spots where it got spattered with
> water.
>
> I haven't had occasion to experiment and try to control the process
> but I'm guessing the finish would take paint well.  Not sure.
>
> Tnx,
> - Mike
>
> --
> Michael Spencer                  Nova Scotia, Canada       .~.
>                                                            /V\
> mspencer at tallships.ca                                     /( )\
> http://home.tallships.ca/mspencer/                        ^^-^^
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