[TheForge] Arc wekding advice sought

Wed Jun 3 20:40:12 EDT 2015

Never tried it, But a great name!
L Brown

-----Original Message-----
From: TheForge [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ron
Childers
Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2015 6:38 AM
To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA
Subject: Re: [TheForge] Arc wekding advice sought

Certanium was the super rod back in the 70's- very expensive stick rods but
still in business

-----Original Message-----
From: TheForge [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Larry
Brown
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 10:18 PM
To: 'Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA'
Subject: Re: [TheForge] Arc wekding advice sought

I still have several sizes of eutectic 680, taped up sealed in cans in a
cabinet. Just a few pounds left total. I use it with reverence. One of the
best dis-similar rods I have ever used, I lost 10# of it to hurricane sandy
and I'm still upset by it. Also their cast rod 2240( if I recall) was
excellent Larry Brown

-----Original Message-----
From: TheForge [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of jerry
Frost
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2015 5:19 PM
To: mspencer at tallships.ca; 'Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA'
Subject: Re: [TheForge] Arc wekding advice sought

Mike: Is this going to be under load or will a failure put ANYBODY at risk?
If yes then do NOT do it. Hot bend new spring, harden and temper it. Find
something else.

Typical spring steel until recently has been 5160 for leaf and 5160 or 9260
for coil. Either has a lot of chrome in it so you need a rod that works well
with chrome. 7018 is pretty iffy on spring steel but is known to work.

The failures you're experiencing is at the boundary of the HAZ .(Heat
Affected Zone) What's happening is the arc is melting the base metal and
it's cooling too quickly over hardening the molybdenum in the spring steel.
Moly is an air hardening metal above a certain %. that's more than is in
spring steel but welding heat to solidus, let alone to black is way faster
than even a low %'s quench hardening speed.

Don't quote me but IIRC after hardening the spring shop brought the springs
to dull red and oil quenched them. That was barely visibly red in a dim
darkish shop, maybe 900-950f. ?

The only time I was routinely successful arc welding spring steel was using
Eutectic 680 rod. The designating number changed probably 25 years ago and
last time I checked it was $125.00/lb. with a 10lb. minimum. It's a high
alloy specialty rod. . . and $YIKES$

You might call Lincoln or a spring shop and see what if anything they
recommend for welding springs. I doubt they want the liability but you might
get lucky.

My recommendation if you plan on putting ANY load on them is think of
something different.

Frosty

-----Original Message-----
From: TheForge [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Mike
Spencer
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2015 3:33 PM
To: theforge at mailman.qth.net
Subject: [TheForge] Arc wekding advice sought

Trying to make something from big-truck helper spring material.
That's the more or less Z- or chicane-shaped, maybe 2"x3" in the middle,
tapering to maybe 3"x3/4" at the long end, close to 4' overall length. 

I can make a very nice looking weld with 7018, DC straight polarity
(electrode negative).  But the base material under the weld seems to become
exceptionally brittle, such that the whole weld bead can be easily broken
off of the base metal, leaving a fine-grained, clean gray fracture.  What
appears to be a thin layer of the base metal adheres to the broken-off weld
bead.

   + Am I doing something wrong?

   + Is there a trick to welding this material?

   + Anybody know what this material is?  It cuts easily on my little
     bandsaw. 

   + Is welding to this kind of spring alloy known to be a problem or
     outright impossible without fancy industrial gear that I don't
     have?

- Mike

-- 
Michael Spencer                  Nova Scotia, Canada       .~. 
                                                           /V\ 
mspencer at tallships.ca                                     /( )\
http://home.tallships.ca/mspencer/                        ^^-^^
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