[TheForge] Arc wekding advice sought

Ron Childers ron at munlaw.net
Wed Jun 3 06:37:33 EDT 2015 

Certanium was the super rod back in the 70's- very expensive stick rods but still in business

-----Original Message-----
From: TheForge [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Larry Brown
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 10:18 PM
To: 'Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA'
Subject: Re: [TheForge] Arc wekding advice sought

I still have several sizes of eutectic 680, taped up sealed in cans in a cabinet. Just a few pounds left total. I use it with reverence. One of the best dis-similar rods I have ever used, I lost 10# of it to hurricane sandy and I'm still upset by it. Also their cast rod 2240( if I recall) was excellent Larry Brown


-----Original Message-----
From: TheForge [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of jerry Frost
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2015 5:19 PM
To: mspencer at tallships.ca; 'Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA'
Subject: Re: [TheForge] Arc wekding advice sought

Mike: Is this going to be under load or will a failure put ANYBODY at risk?
If yes then do NOT do it. Hot bend new spring, harden and temper it. Find something else.

Typical spring steel until recently has been 5160 for leaf and 5160 or 9260 for coil. Either has a lot of chrome in it so you need a rod that works well with chrome. 7018 is pretty iffy on spring steel but is known to work.

The failures you're experiencing is at the boundary of the HAZ .(Heat Affected Zone) What's happening is the arc is melting the base metal and it's cooling too quickly over hardening the molybdenum in the spring steel.
Moly is an air hardening metal above a certain %. that's more than is in spring steel but welding heat to solidus, let alone to black is way faster than even a low %'s quench hardening speed.

Don't quote me but IIRC after hardening the spring shop brought the springs to dull red and oil quenched them. That was barely visibly red in a dim darkish shop, maybe 900-950f. ?

The only time I was routinely successful arc welding spring steel was using Eutectic 680 rod. The designating number changed probably 25 years ago and last time I checked it was $125.00/lb. with a 10lb. minimum. It's a high alloy specialty rod. . . and $YIKES$

You might call Lincoln or a spring shop and see what if anything they recommend for welding springs. I doubt they want the liability but you might get lucky.

My recommendation if you plan on putting ANY load on them is think of something different.

Frosty

-----Original Message-----
From: TheForge [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Mike Spencer
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2015 3:33 PM
To: theforge at mailman.qth.net
Subject: [TheForge] Arc wekding advice sought


Trying to make something from big-truck helper spring material.
That's the more or less Z- or chicane-shaped, maybe 2"x3" in the middle, tapering to maybe 3"x3/4" at the long end, close to 4' overall length. 

I can make a very nice looking weld with 7018, DC straight polarity (electrode negative).  But the base material under the weld seems to become exceptionally brittle, such that the whole weld bead can be easily broken off of the base metal, leaving a fine-grained, clean gray fracture.  What appears to be a thin layer of the base metal adheres to the broken-off weld bead.

   + Am I doing something wrong?

   + Is there a trick to welding this material?

   + Anybody know what this material is?  It cuts easily on my little
     bandsaw. 

   + Is welding to this kind of spring alloy known to be a problem or
     outright impossible without fancy industrial gear that I don't
     have?


- Mike

-- 
Michael Spencer                  Nova Scotia, Canada       .~. 
                                                           /V\ 
mspencer at tallships.ca                                     /( )\
http://home.tallships.ca/mspencer/                        ^^-^^
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