[TheForge] Seeking How To info...

Sun Apr 26 20:54:54 EDT 2015

Dave,

Good bid, but you need to alter the marketing strategy to make  a $50 "dog"
collar attractive to the clientele:

http://diamondcelebrities.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/dog-man.jpg?w=588&h=455

Also, you probably KNOW folks who have the Pexto machines collecting dust.
I have three of them myself, though probably not exactly what you'd need.
Borrow these from a buddy and your investment goes down, though you might
have to add a case of beer for your buddy in the bid price.  You still
might have to machine dies, but on a lathe that might not be so bad.

Meanwhile, for those interested, here's a video I found useful when I was
trying this technique for a project.  This approach worked well for me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zv_ZpDDKkPw
I also watched something like this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuILLaFSLNI

Bruce
NJ

On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 2:06 AM, Dave Mudge <dave at magichammer.net> wrote:

> Thank everyone for your input and suggestions. Below is my reply to the
> shop that asked me to bid on this job.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> First, one needs a used Pexto machine (bead roller) ($200 - $300?)
> I found some on e-bay.
> *http://tinyurl.com/l73249w <http://tinyurl.com/l73249w>*
>
> *http://tinyurl.com/pd2sxgq <http://tinyurl.com/pd2sxgq>*
>
> They have a bunch more but this is just to give you the idea.
>
> Then one needs the proper dies for the machine. I suppose that we
> could turn our own dies once we figure out the profiles. It's going to
> take one set of dies to form the bead then another set to close the bead.
> Time on the lathe, 8 hours?
>
> Then you have to learn how to use the machine to produce the product that
> you want. Scrap blanks and practice time.
>
> Then you need to buy a sheet of 22 ga. stainless ($300. range?)
> Then you need to lay out and shear up the 22 ga.? stainless. (shear, not
> plasma)
> If all of that works, then you need to punch the slots for the buckle (like
> a belt)
> That means buying the correct punch for the iron worker ($50.?)
> More labor time, layout, shear, punch, dress edges. 4 - 8 hours.
>
> Now you have a blank, you will want to form the bead on each side of the
> blank.
> If it all went perfectly you would still need to run each blank through the
> machine 4 times x 50 pieces... (time?)
> Then polish the whole thing. (time?) Then roll into shape of a dog collar
> without squishing the beads. (time?)
> And we haven't even done the hook / lock / attachment / whatever to keep
> the thing closed. (time?)
>
> Finally, how much can you get for a stainless steel dog collar?
> Just pulling a number out of the air, let's say $50. each x 50 pieces =
> $2500*. *
> I don't think that anyone would pay $50 wholesale for one of these.
>
> In my opinion, even if everything went together smoothly, one couldn't make
> a profit making 50 pieces for $2500.00,,
> even if you could get the client to pay $50 each.
>
> Thanks for the opportunity to bid, but I think that I have to pass on this
> job.
>
> dave
>
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 1:14 PM, Dave Mudge <dave at magichammer.net> wrote:
>
> > Jerry & Bruce,
> > I have done the hammer the edge around a wire thing on several copper
> > fountain bowls
> > and some small 'art' pieces.
> > It's more work than I would want to do for 50 pieces of stainless, albeit
> > thin.
> > The Pexto machine sounds like the way to go. Too bad that I don't have
> one.
> > I do however have a lathe and access to 7 more. I could make the rollers
> > but
> > I would have to make a machine to hold them. That might be fun. It would
> > have to be hand crank.
> > I saw some illustrations of progressive dies on the internet but they
> were
> > for a press
> > rather than a roller. In this application I think that a roller is the
> > only way to go.
> > I don't have any idea about unit price because I don't have the tooling
> > readily available.
> > The flash in the far back reaches of my cluttered mind flashed on $20 -
> > $50 each but
> > that sounds ridiculous. Yes, I know that you can never base a price on
> > what "you" think
> > sounds too high or too low. It was just a flash.
> > Bruce, I will try to find those books. If I considered making the dies,
> > what would the profile look like?
> > You could e-mail a drawing to me dave at magichammer.net  because the robot
> > won't
> > let us post pictures on TheForge, although we could post it here,
> > http://www.shutterfly.com/
> > I am embarrassed to say that I have never used the shutterfly site......
> >
> > dave m
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 11:54 AM, jerry Frost <akfrosty at mtaonline.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> In dad's shop we called it "rolling a bead." Pexto makes a set of dies
> for
> >> their rolls. They're similar to the fluting dies but are more complex
> and
> >> or
> >> two pass per bead to close it. If you have access to a lathe you could
> >> make
> >> a set to roll both edges at the same time making guiding the strip much
> >> easier and cuts the steps in half. Unless I already had a bead roller
> set
> >> up
> >> I wouldn't bid on 50, too small a run to break even let alone turn a
> >> profit.
> >>
> >> Looking back on Dad's bidding process I'd guess the break even for a two
> >> pass per side process like that at around 1,000 units IF you pay
> yourself
> >> minimum wage. Do you have power rolls, something you could just feed
> >> blanks?
> >> If you could roll them fast enough you might not take too bad a beating
> on
> >> making the tooling, provided you have your own lathe.
> >>
> >> Heck, if you have a lathe sell them the tooling, you'd make a buck.
> >>
> >> How much are you thinking to bid per unit Dave?
> >>
> >> Jer
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: TheForge [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
> >> Dave
> >> Mudge
> >> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 9:46 PM
> >> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA
> >> Subject: [TheForge] Seeking How To info...
> >>
> >> looking for "How To" information. specifically, how to roll the bead on
> >> the
> >> edges of this dog collar. I have a chance to bid on making 50 of these
> of
> >> stainless steel. 2" wide x 18" circumference. any information at all
> will
> >> be
> >> greatly appreciated...
> >> click here for picture of dog collar http://tinyurl.com/mmpa3sw
> >>
> >> dave m
> >> listmom for TheForge
> >>
> >>
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