[TheForge] Seeking How To info...

Sun Apr 26 02:06:56 EDT 2015

Thank everyone for your input and suggestions. Below is my reply to the
shop that asked me to bid on this job.
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First, one needs a used Pexto machine (bead roller) ($200 - $300?)
I found some on e-bay.
*http://tinyurl.com/l73249w <http://tinyurl.com/l73249w>*

*http://tinyurl.com/pd2sxgq <http://tinyurl.com/pd2sxgq>*

They have a bunch more but this is just to give you the idea.

Then one needs the proper dies for the machine. I suppose that we
could turn our own dies once we figure out the profiles. It's going to
take one set of dies to form the bead then another set to close the bead.
Time on the lathe, 8 hours?

Then you have to learn how to use the machine to produce the product that
you want. Scrap blanks and practice time.

Then you need to buy a sheet of 22 ga. stainless ($300. range?)
Then you need to lay out and shear up the 22 ga.? stainless. (shear, not
plasma)
If all of that works, then you need to punch the slots for the buckle (like
a belt)
That means buying the correct punch for the iron worker ($50.?)
More labor time, layout, shear, punch, dress edges. 4 - 8 hours.

Now you have a blank, you will want to form the bead on each side of the
blank.
If it all went perfectly you would still need to run each blank through the
machine 4 times x 50 pieces... (time?)
Then polish the whole thing. (time?) Then roll into shape of a dog collar
without squishing the beads. (time?)
And we haven't even done the hook / lock / attachment / whatever to keep
the thing closed. (time?)

Finally, how much can you get for a stainless steel dog collar?
Just pulling a number out of the air, let's say $50. each x 50 pieces =
$2500*. *
I don't think that anyone would pay $50 wholesale for one of these.

In my opinion, even if everything went together smoothly, one couldn't make
a profit making 50 pieces for $2500.00,,
even if you could get the client to pay $50 each.

Thanks for the opportunity to bid, but I think that I have to pass on this
job.

dave

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 1:14 PM, Dave Mudge <dave at magichammer.net> wrote:

> Jerry & Bruce,
> I have done the hammer the edge around a wire thing on several copper
> fountain bowls
> and some small 'art' pieces.
> It's more work than I would want to do for 50 pieces of stainless, albeit
> thin.
> The Pexto machine sounds like the way to go. Too bad that I don't have one.
> I do however have a lathe and access to 7 more. I could make the rollers
> but
> I would have to make a machine to hold them. That might be fun. It would
> have to be hand crank.
> I saw some illustrations of progressive dies on the internet but they were
> for a press
> rather than a roller. In this application I think that a roller is the
> only way to go.
> I don't have any idea about unit price because I don't have the tooling
> readily available.
> The flash in the far back reaches of my cluttered mind flashed on $20 -
> $50 each but
> that sounds ridiculous. Yes, I know that you can never base a price on
> what "you" think
> sounds too high or too low. It was just a flash.
> Bruce, I will try to find those books. If I considered making the dies,
> what would the profile look like?
> You could e-mail a drawing to me dave at magichammer.net  because the robot
> won't
> let us post pictures on TheForge, although we could post it here,
> http://www.shutterfly.com/
> I am embarrassed to say that I have never used the shutterfly site......
>
> dave m
>
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 11:54 AM, jerry Frost <akfrosty at mtaonline.net>
> wrote:
>
>> In dad's shop we called it "rolling a bead." Pexto makes a set of dies for
>> their rolls. They're similar to the fluting dies but are more complex and
>> or
>> two pass per bead to close it. If you have access to a lathe you could
>> make
>> a set to roll both edges at the same time making guiding the strip much
>> easier and cuts the steps in half. Unless I already had a bead roller set
>> up
>> I wouldn't bid on 50, too small a run to break even let alone turn a
>> profit.
>>
>> Looking back on Dad's bidding process I'd guess the break even for a two
>> pass per side process like that at around 1,000 units IF you pay yourself
>> minimum wage. Do you have power rolls, something you could just feed
>> blanks?
>> If you could roll them fast enough you might not take too bad a beating on
>> making the tooling, provided you have your own lathe.
>>
>> Heck, if you have a lathe sell them the tooling, you'd make a buck.
>>
>> How much are you thinking to bid per unit Dave?
>>
>> Jer
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: TheForge [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
>> Dave
>> Mudge
>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 9:46 PM
>> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA
>> Subject: [TheForge] Seeking How To info...
>>
>> looking for "How To" information. specifically, how to roll the bead on
>> the
>> edges of this dog collar. I have a chance to bid on making 50 of these of
>> stainless steel. 2" wide x 18" circumference. any information at all will
>> be
>> greatly appreciated...
>> click here for picture of dog collar http://tinyurl.com/mmpa3sw
>>
>> dave m
>> listmom for TheForge
>>
>>
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NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders, the National Security Agency
may have read this email without warning, warrant, or notice. They may do
this without any judicial or legislative oversight. You have no recourse
nor protection.