[TheForge] something I hope better than what was the theft of metal public

Tue Apr 21 08:48:13 EDT 2015

Jerry,

Obviously you're trying to MELT the glass into that cavity.  Problem is
that glass flows like water when up to its melting point.

If you can support the glass so it doesn't flow away (which seems what
you're trying to do), you may be partway there.  Make a copper dam.  Copper
flashing might work.  Thicker copper could be crimped up against the
steel.  The main problem there it that copper will stick to the glass.
Maybe you can melt the glass into the copper-dammed hole, then remove the
copper after by heating it with a torch to melt the glass immediately
contacting the copper.

Backing off, though, you might consider slumping instead.  In slumping, you
don't melt the glass -- you "sag" it into the opening.  So imagine you get
a chunk of plate glass and knap it roughly to shape and size, slightly
oversized perhaps.  Support the underside of the hole with something, put
the glass on top, and heat till the glass slumps into the hole.  With luck,
the whole piece would go into the hole, but there's no guarantee of that.

Slumping can be done from two sides -- combining slumping with fusing -- if
you support the lower piece.  The result would be a piece of glass that
surrounds the hole, like an "H" with the crossbar through the hole.

Whether you slump or melt, one approach would be to use a LOT extra glass,
get some of it to fuse within the hole, then GRIND off the excess.
Flame-polish the ground surface.

If you're any good at knapping glass, you could simply shape the glass to
fit the hole and epoxy it in place.  Not as elegant, but effective.

It is entirely possible you're using too high a temperature.  You should
be able to melt glass at a red heat.  Copper enameling is often done in an
electric kiln -- just visualize the heat of a NiCr element.

Another possibility is to add a "thickener" to your glass.  Mix sharp
(silica) sand evenly into your glass frit.  The glass will melt long before
the sand, and the whole should behave as a thick liquid.  The result will
not be clear, but translucent.

All above ideas are presented free of charge and are guaranteed to be
highly speculative and completely untested.

I presume you're "annealing" the object (in the glass sense of the word) to
prevent the glass from shattering when it cools?

Bruce
NJ

On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 2:27 AM, Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer <
artgawk at thegrid.net> wrote:

> I haven’t seen it in years, but there used to a carbon paste that could be
> used to make a sort of mold one could fill with welding rod or you could
> pack it in a threaded hole and save the threads when you welded nearby.
> Handy stuff but when i went back to Forney, they didn’t stock it any more.
> How bout backing the kiln paper with clay?
>
> On Apr 20, 2015, at 10:51 PM, jerry Frost <akfrosty at mtaonline.net> wrote:
>
> Won't work. aluminum has a melting temp of around 1,100f and glass needs in
> excess of 1,500 to slump and better than 1,600 to flow. Glass sticks to
> darned neat anything, I was getting limited success with soap stone but
> being a form of asbestos it insulated the glass enough it'd barely vitrify
> instead of liquify.
>
> The guy at the art glass studio sold me a roll of kiln paper which is
> ceramic fiber paper, same stuff as Kaowool. Kiln paper seems to be working
> okay so far. I can get a good enough seal the glass doesn't just flow out.
>
> I just brought kiln paper backer experiment #2 in and it's a fail. It
> flowed
> and it looks like the paper kept it in the cross but there's barely a skim
> at the "bottom" and I had it piled pretty high. I now know one more way it
> won't work. YAY! I should keep count though I strongly doubt I'll rival
> Edison's count.
>
> Jer
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TheForge [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
> Saint
> Phlip
> Sent: Monday, April 20, 2015 5:56 PM
> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] something I hope better than what was the theft of
> metal public
>
> Tin foil dams?
>
> On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 9:54 PM, jerry Frost <akfrosty at mtaonline.net>
> wrote:
>
> > "The Art of Blacksmithing" has a piece about it too. What I'm doing
> > isn't really slumping, I'm attempting to melt the glass to a state
> > fluid enough to fill nooks and crannies and be somewhat thick, in the
> > 1/8" range. I have my latest tempering in the forge now but it's
> > really hard to keep the stuff in the negative space when fluid enough
> > to flow. The stuff tends to want to sweat out like solder and spread
> > out between the cross and the clamp.
> >
> > Jer
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: TheForge [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
> > dantull dantull
> > Sent: Monday, April 20, 2015 3:42 PM
> > To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA
> > Subject: Re: [TheForge] something I hope better than what was the
> > theft of metal public
> >
> > Jer,
> > Melting(slumping) glass into steel cavities was done by Ivan
> > Bailey(ABANA
> > founder) many years ago. It certainly does work . Even for me.
> >
> > It's not firewood, it's a vaasse.
> > Dan Tull
> > Georgia
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 4:47 PM, jerry Frost <akfrosty at mtaonline.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> A tarp with weighted edges and flesh eating  beetles. A few days and
> >> bones are all that's left.
> >>
> >> Good grief I can't believe I actually contributed to this thread. Is
> >> anyone actually doing something constructive we can talk about?
> >>
> >> I don't want to be a lurker who just gripes and never contributes so
> >> I'll put this up. I'd post a pic or two of what I've been
> >> experimenting with but Shutterfly requires me to subscribe and I get
> >> too much spam already. Text it is then. I'll shoot you pics on the
> >> side if you like.
> >>
> >> Recently I've been making Fredrich's crosses, they're good
> >> beginner's projects and any kind of twisting wows the new folk so
> >> they're good demo products. Recently our Pastor retired so I thought
> >> I'd make him ad the new Pastor a nice key forb, zipper pull, etc.
> >> but wanted a little something extra and thought filling the negative
> >> space with red glass was a natural if kind of heavy handed symbolism.
> >>
> >> That's what I've been doing. One of the guys in the club is a champ
> >> at slumping marbles but what I'm trying is more like Plique a jure
> >> only much thicker and in a steel frame. This is proving a little
> >> problematical but is progressing. Seriously, what fun is
> >> experimentation
> > if it's easy?
> >>
> >> I spent a very profitable 45 minutes or so sponging everything I
> >> could from the owner and instructor at an art glass studio in
> >> Anchorage. I learned a bunch of good stuff. funny, his first comment
> >> after I described what I'm trying was. "It won't work." Then I
> >> showed him the latest successful piece and he said, "maybe it will."
> >> It wasn't what I'm ultimately shooting for but it's not bad, even
> >> marketable if I can't get better.
> >>
> >> Oh, the last feature of the crucifixes for the Pastors. They aren't
> >> going to be key fobs or zipper pulls I'm making the bottom of  the
> >> post a bottle opener. I had to change from 3/8" sq. stock to 1/2" sq.
> >> but it's a small sacrifice. I mean really what Pastor shouldn't have
> >> a nice custom made, hand forged church key?
> >>
> >> Jer
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: TheForge [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf
> >> Of Andrew Vida
> >> Sent: Monday, April 20, 2015 11:55 AM
> >> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA
> >> Subject: Re: [TheForge] the theft of metal public
> >>
> >>
> >> On 4/19/15, 7:26 AM, Larry Brown wrote:
> >>> Actually I believe in that case it is fixed. Corpses tend not to
> >>> do many more stupid things ;-)
> >> They do, however, make a nasty mess for the rest of us to clean. :(
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>
> --
> Saint Phlip
>
> Only President Obama could double the stock market, cut the deficit by 2/3,
> bring gas down under $3, get bin Laden, end 2 wars, bring unemployment down
> under 6%,  while fighting a government that is trying to destroy him, and
> still be told he's failing as President.
>
>
> Heat it up
> Hit it hard
> Repent as necessary.
>
> Priorities:
>
> It's the smith who makes the tools, not the tools which make the smith.
>
> .I never wanted to see anybody die, but there are a few obituary notices I
> have read with pleasure. -Clarence Darrow
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