[TheForge] todays shooting in school.

Rob Fertner rfertner at cox.net
Mon Dec 17 17:45:22 EST 2012 

Must be nice to be omnipotent enough to know so much as fact. A revolver
with speedloaders could get as many shots off as needed to commit the
tragedy in a gun-free zone environment with the police too many minutes
away.
I don't own an AR-15 but I don't presume to know that every AR-15 just wants
to play army.
Human Beings are a weird mixture of the rational and irrational. As an
aggregate we mostly balance out between the two and civilization is created.
As individuals, we fall into place on the bell curve. Most of us fall in the
middle, hence the civilization part. It's those of us who fall into the
edges, the rigidly rational or the completely irrational that shake things
up for the majority. In this case, we have a very evil negative act
committed by mentally disturbed individual who killed his mother and stole
her guns. Heinlein once said a mother's love is delusional to keep her from
drowning her kid at birth.  His mother knew he was a problem and she chose
to deal with it in her own way. She tried to shield him from the world, but
she should of shielded the world from him. I work in a Middle School and I
have dealt with kids that I wonder about. They're not in the majority, but
enough to wonder and worry.  Mostly about them ending up in prison, but
small percentage of these scare me what they may end up doing in their life.
As a society we generally avoid dealing with mental health issues. That is
where I would like the focus to be.

Rob

-----Original Message-----
From: wmullett at bright.net [mailto:wmullett at bright.net] 
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 3:57 PM
To: rfertner at cox.net
Subject: Re: [TheForge] todays shooting in school.

Without large capacity clips, the loss of life in this event would have been
a lot less.  They now know that all of the 100+ shots that were made were
from his assault rifle and he only used the handgun on himself.

I don't believe there is any argument available to defend these.

An AR15 rifle is only made the way it is for those idiots that want to play
army. 

---- Original message ----
>Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 16:11:40 -0500
>From: <rfertner at cox.net>
>Subject: Re: [TheForge] todays shooting in school.  
>To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>Cc: wmullett at bright.net
>
>A semi-automatic firearm is not an "Assault Weapon" Never has been. That is
purely a media invention.
>I've known people to hunt with the semi-auto AR-15 rifle. All semi-autos
function pretty much the same, the main differences are cosmetic on the
outside. Which is why the Clinton Weapon Ban of the '90s never worked. 
>I seem to remember the LA riots and the pictures of the Korean businessmen
guarding their businesses with rifles that happened to have large capacity
magazine. They didn't get burned out. The rioters gave them wide berth.
>This is why it is constitutional. The Constitution is about self-defence
and not hunting.
>The real issue in this tragedy is how the system fails to deal with the
mentally ill. When the country institutioanized the dangerously mentally ill
and those who simply could take care of themselves, you had less crime
committed by the mentally ill and less homelessness.
>Rob
>---- wmullett at bright.net wrote: 
>> Baloney, You wrote: "There are less than 30 dead out of a nation of
millions! "  
>> 
>> Don't trivialize!  No matter how many, this is horrific. 
>> 
>> There is no reason for large magazine clips or even assault looking
weapons. 
>> 
>> I hunt and have many guns.  My neighbor even has a 223 - bolt action.
<<<< That is a hunting rifle.  An assault weapon - 223, semi-automatic with
a large magazine is a man killer.
>> 
>> Call this for what it is.  Having these weapons available has nothing to
do with hunting or the constitution.
>> 
>> ---- Original message ----
>> >Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 11:14:37 -0800
>> >From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net (on behalf of Peter Fels & 
>> >Phoebe Palmer <artgawk at thegrid.net>)
>> >Subject: Re: [TheForge] todays shooting in school.  
>> >To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>> >
>> >I apologize that you are disgusted by my response.
>> >I realized that some folks would feel that way and elected to risk it.
>> >But i was disgusted by the way our nation unquestioningly accepted 
>> >the wildly distorted reality that the media presents on this issue,  
>> >just so that they can sell advertising.
>> >It's a dramatic and heart rending story, but the odds of it actually 
>> >happening to a child are literally 1 in a million.
>> >We have lost all sense of proportion here, and consequently, will 
>> >spend our energies to little effect, while more important issues will be
ignored.
>> >The end result i seek, is less dead people.
>> >
>> >At this point, i'll bow out of this conversation and go heat and hammer
some bronze.
>> >Thanks to the listmom for tolerating this diversion.
>> > 
>> >On Dec 17, 2012, at 10:47 AM, <wmullett at bright.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >Sorry - but this kind of response is disgusting.  
>> >
>> >---- Original message ----
>> >> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 15:30:19 -0800
>> >> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net (on behalf of Peter Fels & 
>> >> Phoebe Palmer <artgawk at thegrid.net>)
>> >> Subject: Re: [TheForge] todays shooting in school.  
>> >> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA 
>> >> <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>> >> 
>> >> Just to raise a little sand:
>> >> I'd note that we , as smiths, are part of a tradition of weapons 
>> >> makers, and so part of the onus lies on our shoulders.
>> >> Still:
>> >> We see this hysteria saturating the news and it fills our 
>> >> awareness totally...but , This is a news event more than anything.
>> >> We kill more folks in traffic every single day.
>> >> There are less than 30 dead out of a nation of millions!
>> >> We've lost all sense of proportion.
>> >> 
>> >> The automatic weapons are already out there  and impossible to recall.
>> >> A few gallons of gasoline is more available and could easily have made
this tragedy even more horrible.
>> >> Adequately funding mental health and education would be a more
constructive response.
>> >> ...plus a snip from smith richard ferguson...
>> >> 
>> >> The highway death toll in the USA is about 90 people per day, the
lowest it has been since 1949.  
>> >> 
>> >> The suicide rate is a little higher than the highway death toll, at
105 per day.
>> >> 
>> >> The homicide rate in the USA is also at a historic low, around 40 per
day.
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> On Dec 14, 2012, at 3:15 PM, Bruce . wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> How about a national dialog about this too obvious problem?  Two 
>> >> shootings in one week -- in the holiday season, no less?  Seems to 
>> >> me it's time to form some sort of national policy.  Ignoring the 
>> >> issue is not working.
>> >> 
>> >> On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 6:05 PM, terry l. ridder
<terrylr at blauedonau.com> wrote:
>> >>> hello;
>> >>> 
>> >>> there is not much to say.
>> >>> 
>> >>> just take a moment and pray for the parents who have lost a child 
>> >>> and the families who have lost a parent. there is nothing that 
>> >>> may be said that will ease the pain and heartbreak these parents 
>> >>> and families are feeling.
>> >>> 
>> >>> hug your children and spouse tonight and tell them you love them.
>> >>> 
>> >>> --
>> >>> terry l. ridder ><>
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>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> --
>> >> Bruce
>> >> NJ
>> >> ______________________________________________________________
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