[TheForge] OT - Water pressure problem. OT:ish

dann at wctatel.net dann at wctatel.net
Mon May 16 11:05:44 EDT 2011 

Bruce,

Look at this link.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200352050_200352050?cm_sp=Upsells-_-Top%20Sellers-_-Product%20Page

Dann

> How would the pump activate on demand?  I'd have to go to the pump,
> turn it on, then go back to the hose nozzle and water.  When watering
> gets interrupted, I'd have to either let the pump keep running with
> zero flow, or waste water, or go back and turn off the pump.  Or, I
> could run an electrical lead along the hose and put a switch at the
> nozzle (which would require me always to use the same hose).  Or I
> could come up with some non-wire remote control to turn on and off the
> pump.  These strike me as burdensome AND assume that I want to water
> at the full pump flow.
>
> If I could equip the downstream side of the pump with a pressure
> sensor, then the pump could turn on when that pressure dropped below
> some minimum.  But that still assumes I want to water at the full pump
> flow.  And with that level of complexity, I might as well add an
> accumulator tank of some sort (air-pressurized or water tower) so that
> the pump can run at its maximum efficiency and then turn off, but
> water would be available even when the pump is not running.
>
> My objectives here are (1) to pressurize the accumulated rain water
> sufficiently for use in the garden, and (2) to do this cheaper than it
> would cost me to just use city water.
>
> So far, I've spent $125 on tanks (~600 gallons total), and maybe about
> $25 on plumbing parts (I haven't checked my receipts, just guessing
> from memory).  I have a very nice pump I plan to use.  I have no
> pressure or flow sensors suitable for use with it, but I can design
> and build electronic circuits needed to control it.  I'll probably
> cannibalize an existing pump controller that takes a contact closure
> input and closes a 12V relay to control the 115V pump. I may have to
> use a transistor to close the contact, and drive that from sensor
> inputs of some sort.
>
> On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 1:32 AM, peter fels <artgawk at thegrid.net> wrote:
>> That's much too straight-forward!
>>
>> On May 15, 2011, at 8:09 PM, Lynn and Susan Lang wrote:
>>
>>> Bruce
>>> Why not just collect the water in a stock tank and when water is needed
>>> have a small pump to charge your garden hose.....Not knowing your task
>>> makes suggestions a shot in the dark...
>>>
>>> lynn
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
>>> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bruce Freeman
>>> Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:45 PM
>>> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA
>>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] OT - Water pressure problem.
>>>
>>> I've had two ideas since first asking.  One is to mount a plastic
>>> barrel horizontally on four or six legs as a water tower, but lean
>>> this structure against the back of the garage, which (1) hides it from
>>> casual view, (2) provides the extra rigidity from the existing
>>> structure, and (3) allows me to use the space beneath as a "shed", if
>>> I enclose it.
>>>
>>> But on reading Peter's contribution, it struck me that I could
>>> pressurize a tank using air from an air compressor.  When the water
>>> level got too low, the air pressure would be released until low enough
>>> for the water pump to handle.  The water pump would refill the tank,
>>> then the water pump would shut off and the air pump would come on and
>>> pump the tank back up to operating pressure.  Clearly, one would want
>>> a tank large enough for the watering job at hand.  And a manual switch
>>> to initialize the refill cycle would be handy. Main advantage -- no
>>> tower structure to build and worry about.  Main disadvantage --
>>> obtaining a suitable tank.  Anyone know a source of such tanks --
>>> cheap?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 4:18 PM, peter fels <artgawk at thegrid.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Storing water under the house in sealed tanks has thermal mass
>>> virtues.
>>>> or short term use, an external  tank ,with water above pressurized
>>>> air
>>>> ought to suffice. No bladder necessary....just drain and recharge
>>> every month or 2.
>>>> I've about 300 gallons available for fire fighting like that.
>>>> The pump could be electric on a pressure switch..all commonly
>>> available and modestly priced...
>>>> Or a small solar powered piston pump might suffice as well.
>>>> A tank atop a n upright pipe promises the least upkeep and lots of
>>> design freedom.
>>>> I think you can go to about 30' up with a centrifugal pump. Beyond
>>> that you'll want a piston or roller pump.
>>>> I've long wanted to build a rigid, flat, black tank with glass
>>> covering,
>>>>  that would pump with no moving parts, by the daily heating and
>>> expansion of the water...
>>>> OK the check valve is a moving part.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On May 14, 2011, at 3:05 PM, Bruce Freeman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Once again I'm using the broad knowledge base represented by this
>>>>> group for an OT problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have just installed rain barrels at all my downspouts, including a
>>>>> 250-gallon tank at one of them.  I plan to siphon or pump water
>>>>> between them to maximize capacity.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, none of these are more than 16" above the ground -- two
>>>>> cement blocks.  That means that there's little water pressure
>>>>> available, making using the water inconvenient.  I could rig a pump
>>> to
>>>>> go on anytime I need water, but a more elegant solution would be to
>>>>> use that pump to keep an elevated tank (water tower) filled between
>>>>> limits.
>>>>>
>>>>> What I'm thinking is to use a fairly small plastic tank -- 15 or 20
>>>>> gallons (i.e., ~150 lbs maximum), and to mount it high enough to
>>>>> provide reasonable water pressure.  In use, the pump would probably
>>>>> come on every once in a while, because the tank would be fairly
>>> small,
>>>>> but at least it wouldn't be running continuously or with no flow.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, to get 15psi I'd need a tower of over 30', and that's out of the
>>>>> question.  I'd like something as low as possible and as small as
>>>>> possible.  So, the first question is what is the lowest useful water
>>>>> pressure for use around yard and garden?  I don't need to run
>>>>> sprinklers, but would like to use drip hoses.
>>>>>
>>>>> Possibly a water tower isn't the proper solution.  What other
>>>>> solutions exist?  What I'm aware of is a pressurized system, in
>>>>> which
>>>>> the pump fills an accumulator tank, or something of the sort, which
>>>>> then discharges for a while before the pump comes on again.  This
>>>>> strikes me as expensive, and i'd like to keep expenses low.
>>>>>
>>>>> If it were possible to do, one potentially elegant solution would be
>>>>> an accumulator tank that would be filled either with city water or
>>>>> pumped rain water.  There'd have to be a barrier between them, and
>>> the
>>>>> side that would accept the city water would have to be clean and
>>>>> isolated from the rain water side (which must be assumed to be
>>>>> contaminated with various environmental contaminants, not the least
>>> of
>>>>> which would be bird feces).  If I put a check valve to keep the
>>>>> "city
>>>>> water" from backing up into the city piping, this might even be
>>> legal!
>>>>> I toss it out mainly for discussion, as I really don't see much
>>>>> advantage relative to an air bladder accumulator.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, regale me with your wisdom, o metalworkers and artists of
>>> reality!
>>>>> --
>>>>> Bruce
>>>>> NJ
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Bruce
>>> NJ
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>
>
>
> --
> Bruce
> NJ
> ______________________________________________________________
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