[TheForge] Fw: Welding preheat

Fri Sep 17 15:23:05 EDT 2010

Paul you are headed down the right track with your plan.

I would use a little higher preheat -- say 400 F, assuming your 300 wasn't 
C.

Welding the short handle on that you hold in the tongs has advantages over 
the small longer handle -- I have done it both ways.  As you kind of note 
the weld is a stress point and can fail -- not a big deal you just weld it 
on again but not having to do that is nice.  The short stub handle allows 
for some movement with-in the tongs so much less stress is put on the weld.

As noted I have done it both ways when making tools and doing a lot of hard 
hitting under the power hammer.  Sometimes with a long handle I have had the 
weld fail.  (I use some lengths of 5/8 rebar for long handles -- about the 
only thing it is good for.)  You can get there with a striker, it was done 
that way for years.  The short stub handle also give less shock to the smith 
holding the hammer head because of the freedom of some slight movement in 
the tongs.  A tong clamp is a good idea.

I leave some extra material and weld to what will be come the face of the 
finished hammer, planning to cut off about 1/2 to 3/4 inch when the hammer 
is almost done.  (I cut off with a chop saw.)  That way I don't need special 
eye tongs except if I want to do some final shaping after cutting off  the 
welded handle.  For heat treating I usually just use some pickup tongs 
shaped to hold into the eye.

You most likely can use oil for quenching this spring steel.  It is a big 
mass so you need at least 4 to 5 gallons in a metal container.  (Don't use a 
plastic bucket.  They melt.)  I have a 15 gallon beer keg that I use with 
about 13 to 14 gallons of oil.

Dave Smucker
Brasstown, NC

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Paul N" <crosspein at sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 12:42 PM
To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [TheForge] Welding preheat

> That's fine once I get that hole punched, but it will be probably 4 or
> more heats squaring it up, etc before I even begin punching the hole.
> Then I have to hold it for those heats until the punching is complete.
>
> I already gave it a shot at holding in in my largest tongs, and it's too
> unwieldy (I can't get a good enough grip on it). I figured a 10 minute
> weld job is probably the quickest way to get me where I want to be. I
> really don't want to make a pair of big tongs because they'll be, well,
> big; I don't expect to re-use them anytime soon. Plus the tong exercise
> will be more time consuming than welding on a temporary piece for my
> initial forging.
>
> thanks,
> **paul
>
> On 9/17/2010 11:30 AM, Bruce Freeman wrote:
>> Paul,
>>
>> I'm no expert on hammer making, but in my limited experience, the
>> first step was to punch the hole for the wooden handle.  Once the hole
>> is there you have a couple options how to hold the piece for further
>> forging.
>>
>> One option is to use a hammer-handle-hole drift AS the handle.
>> Another is to modify a set of tongs so one jaw goes through the hole
>> and the other grasps the side.  If these tongs are a modified box-jaw
>> type, you can get a very firm grip while working parallel to the long
>> axis of the hammer head.
>>
>> In short, I see no need to weld at all.
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 11:44 AM, Paul N<crosspein at sbcglobal.net>  wrote:
>>> I'm about to make my first largish hammer, and I intend to arc-weld a
>>> "handle" stub onto it. Since I only have hobby-duty welding equipment,
>>> I thought I'd get another opinion or two before I proceed.
>>>
>>> The hammer head will be forged in a coal forge.
>>>
>>> Here's what I've got:
>>> Material:
>>>   2.5" dia piece of railroad locomotive spring, about 5" long (around 
>>> 7#)
>>>   1" dia A-36 for my "handle" (about 6" long so I can grab it with
>>> reasonably sized pair of tongs)
>>>
>>> Choice of welders:
>>>   Lincoln 225 AC/DC ("tombstone")
>>>   Lincoln SP-170T wirefeed (.035 FCAW)
>>>
>>>
>>> Here's the procedure I'm considering:
>>> I've beveled the end of the 1" piece leaving about 1/4" flat at the 
>>> bottom.
>>>
>>> I was going to use the 225 AC/DC and 6011 rod DCEP to get the best
>>> penetration
>>>
>>> I'm going to preheat both pieces. From what I've read, I should preheat
>>> the spring to about 300 degrees.
>>>
>>> Questions:
>>> Is this likely to produce a weld that's adequate to hold up to the
>>> hammering? (Manual, striker with a sledge)
>>>
>>> Is the preheat temp critical? More specifically, is hotter better?
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> **Paul
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>>
>>
>>
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