[TheForge] Needed: Theory of Cold Fusion (was: Slack tank...POL OT)

Mon Dec 27 18:58:59 EST 2010

http://hackaday.com/2010/12/27/build-a-fusion-reactor-in-your-home/

On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 2:26 PM, Bruce Freeman <freemab222 at gmail.com> wrote:
> The initial announcement by Fleischmann and Pons inspired a lot of
> attempts to copy the work.  I've heard of no successes.  Initially, I
> was hopeful, but now I am not.
>
> It is true that success could be thwarted by very small things -- take
> Wootz steel for example, where (IIRC) a vanadium contamination in the
> ore was essential for producing the material.
>
> However, what would get "cold fusion" on a firm footing would be a
> theoretical basis.  I have not looked into it recently, but I am aware
> of no theoretical basis to suppose  two atomic nuclei could be brought
> into sufficiently close proximity to fuse, absent intense heat (as in
> a hydrogen bomb).  Anyone who really wants to contribute to this field
> would do well to provide a theoretical rational to explain its
> feasibility.
>
> This is way out of my field, but basically this would take an analysis
> of the atomic and nuclear forces involved in the diffusion of hydrogen
> into the metal substrate (palladium, is it?) and the hypothetical
> close-approach of the nuclei.  My knowledge of chemistry tells me that
> there would have to involve an enormous dislocation of the energy
> associated with bringing the two nuclei together.
>
> A possible analogy to this (which will be understood only by those who
> have studied chemistry)  is the behavior of the electrons in aromatic
> compounds -- rather than being localized in dimolecular orbitals, they
> are distributed around the entire "aromatic" ring structure.  The
> effect of this is to substantially lower the internal energy of the
> system:  e.g., benzene yields much less energy on combustion than
> would be expected from a calculation of a hypothetical
> 1,3,5-cyclohexatriene.
>
> In the case of cold fusion, one could imagine an environment, such as
> a palladium crystal, in which the electrons are stripped from the
> hydrogen nuclei (very likely true) and the nuclei pass through the
> crystal relatively unimpeded (also very likely true, though this may
> require some heating of the palladium -- I'm not sure).  One more
> element is necessary -- bringing two hydrogen nuclei, that normally
> repel each other, close enough together to fuse.  This would certainly
> involve distribution of the two positive charges in some manner around
> the palladium crystal.  In principal, this could amount to a
> considerable redistribution of negative charges in the molecule to
> stabilize the presence of the (positively charged) nuclei -- rather
> like a capacitor on an atomic scale.  If each nucleus were effectively
> of neutral charge, at least beyond a small number of nuclear radii,
> then maybe the two hydrogen nuclei could be induced to approach each
> other by some means.  So, come up with a way to do that, and you may
> develop a theory of cold fusion.
>
> I wouldn't be surprised if the extra, missing detail would be a
> contaminating substance in the palladium crystal.  I'm thinking along
> the lines of the effect of "poisoning" a silicon  crystal with arsenic
> to produce a semiconductor.  Perhaps an anisometry of the palladium
> crystal might, under certain conditions, make some sort of micro
> accelerator for one or both hydrogen nuclei, propelling them together
> (kinetic energy overcoming electrostatic repulsion).
>
> Put your thinking caps on and get to work.  (Now there's a product to
> make us rich -- hand forged thinking caps, custom fit to your noggin.)
>
> On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Andrew Vida <osan at netlabs.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> James Binnion wrote:
>>> On Dec 22, 2010, at 6:03 AM, Andrew Vida wrote:
>>>> You may be right, who knows... depends on whom you believe.  There
>>>> are claims that about 100 independent trials have produced
>>>> "interesting" results.  I am not doing it so I cannot say.
>>>
>>> I dont know either Andy but given the simplicity of the experimental
>>> setup the crux of the problem seems to be in measuring any kind of
>>> fusion byproducts. If there is indeed anything going on it is finicky
>>> beyond belief as it seems to be unmeasureable by anyone in a
>>> repeatable fashion. So Occam's Razor would suggest there is nothing
>>> there. I doubt there is any deep dark conspiracy on this, the lure of
>>> cheap power will always draw the gullible to pay some researcher or
>>> another who claims to found the secret of cold fusion but somehow
>>> there are never repeatable positive results.
>>
>> As we have both said, who knows?  But they claim statistically
>> significant increases in tritium, that from a woman whose career is said
>> to have been devoted to tritium detection, using industry accepted
>> detectors.  Either it is happening or they are lying.  Ineptitude is a
>> possibility, but very remote IMO, again assuming the bios are not faked
>> or exaggerated.
>>
>> The inconsistent results may be due to some subtlety in conditions that
>> is as yet unidentified.  ONce again, assuming the players are on the up,
>>  it would seem to me to be worth pursuing in case such a subtlety
>> exists and can be understood such that consistent results are possible.
>>  THe potential value is this is way too big to give up on, just  yet.
>> AFAIK paltry sums have been invested to date when compared with other
>> endeavors.  Keep at it and remain hopefully sceptical.
>>
>> Methinks I will investigate this Lattice group.  Now I am curious as to
>> what they are about.
>>
>> Speaking of energy sources, does anyone here use induction coils?  For
>> some apps they appear ideal.  I am wondering if they can be arranged
>> such that there is open space along the coil wall to accommodate odd
>> shapes.  Anyone?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> James Binnion jbin at well.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Bruce
> NJ
>


-- 
Bruce
NJ