[TheForge] Slack tank...POL OT

Mon Dec 20 11:28:01 EST 2010

How can we take blacksmiths seriously when they talk about the evils of coal burning?    If enough people 'believed' and refused the electricity, coal plants would be shut down and unnec essary.   Unfortunately, we like the 'good' that goes with the 'bad', refrigeration, heat, light. . . . .  . . . 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "peter fels & phoebe palmer" <artgawk at thegrid.net> 
To: osan at netlabs.net, "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net> 
Sent: Monday, December 20, 2010 1:59:14 AM 
Subject: Re: [TheForge] Slack tank...POL OT 

On 12/19/2010 7:30 PM, osan at netlabs.net wrote: 
> WTF?!  "Social costs"?!  What in hell are you gibbering about?  Define The term.  Who determines these "costs"?  What is the standard?  Who determines the standard and by what authority do they do so? 
There's a long list Andy..to pick an item.. 
.How bout the mercury spewed from coal burning power plants? We can 
calculate roughly how much sickness, death, neurological damage and so 
on, that has resulted  and will continue to result from that mercury in 
our food. We paid the asking price for the power from the monopolys  and 
had no choice about the mercury exposure even if we refused the 
electricity.  No avenue of  redress for us either. 
Mercury in the food demonstrably screws up children's neurological 
development. That mercury has spread around the globe. 
I'd call that a social cost.  No? 
> We have tried the slavery route for thousands of years.  How about we try something different for once? 
The less-than-a-living-wage jobs capitalism offers millions of us, smell 
an awful lot like slavery to me. 
What different do you have to offer for the mass of men and 
women?...realistically. 
>          -A. Vida 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Bruce Freeman<freemab222 at gmail.com> 
> Sender: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net 
> Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 17:28:34 
> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA<theforge at mailman.qth.net> 
> Reply-To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA<theforge at mailman.qth.net> 
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Slack tank...POL OT 
> 
> Wind turbines slowing earth's rotation.  Fat chance. 
> 
> We can let the fossil fuel market take its course when it starts 
> paying its way.  Social costs should be added to the price of 
> everything -- but they aren't. 
> 
> On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Craig Schaefer 
> <craig.schaefer at frontier.com>  wrote: 
>> Slowing/stopping foreign oil imports is a great idea, but should be 
>> performed by individuals at their level and not by government economic 
>> policies.   Oil consumption will decrease as it's expense to produce and 
>> deliver goes up.   Just leave the market alone and we'll run out and switch 
>> to something else. 
>> Already wind turbines have begun to slow the earths rotation. 
>> Did I read that somewhere or make it up? 
>> 
>> CraigS 
>> Gresham, OR 
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "peter fels&  phoebe palmer"<artgawk at thegrid.net> 
>> To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA"<theforge at mailman.qth.net> 
>> Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 1:13 PM 
>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Slack tank...POL OT 
>> 
>> 
>>> There are thousands of scientists involved with this problem. 
>>> In any group of thousands, you are sure to find fools, cheats, screw-ups 
>>> and dissenters. 
>>> You found some. Big deal. 
>>> Scientists are trained to question and challenge all viewpoints put 
>>> forward..they are supposed to do that. 
>>> As to following the money...that, in theory applies less to legit 
>>> science than in most other areas...in theory. 
>>> Obviously, the really  big money influence here, ( trillions!) ,comes 
>>> down on the anti-global warming side! 
>>> 
>>> Even if the GW theory is wrong...... 
>>> Are you really opposed to stopping the economic hemorrhage of our 
>>> foreign oil imports? 
>>> 
>>> On 12/19/2010 8:26 AM, Andrew Vida wrote: 
>>>> Mike Linn wrote: 
>>>> 
>>>>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1250872/Climategate-U-turn-Astonishment-scientist-centre-global-warming-email-row-admits-data-organised.html#ixzz0fWrHldg3 
>>>>> 
>>>> This is a riot.  Mr. SCientist himself pretty well admits to either 
>>>> fraud or gross incompetence, yet those in seats of power would turn the 
>>>> world on its ear based on his "research".  OK. 
>>>> 
>>>> This part is precious: 
>>>> 
>>>> "Colleagues say that the reason Professor Phil Jones has refused Freedom 
>>>> of Information requests is that he may have actually lost the relevant 
>>>> papers." 
>>>> 
>>>> If it looks like a lie, walks like a lie, and quacks like a lie, it is 
>>>> probably not the truth. 
>>>> 
>>>> Jones is doing the two-step to keep himself out of prison for all his 
>>>> legs will carry him.  Let us not be naive beyond the limits of even the 
>>>> most profound stupidity. 
>>>> 
>>>> One thing people who so readily accept the GW deal seem to fail to do is 
>>>> examine the non-trivial litany of interests that so clearly conflict 
>>>> with those of the rest of the world.  Follow the money.  Always follow 
>>>> the money. 
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> 
> 
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