[TheForge] TheForge Digest, Vol 60, Issue 78
sos at frii.com
sos at frii.com
Mon Jan 26 07:34:52 EST 2009
If you're going to experiment with ventilation, get a CO detector so you
have some measure of your success. I think you're going to need to run you
fume extractor all the time.
Can't you put the tank outside and run a pipe to your shop?
Steve
> Thanks everyone for all the helpful info.
>
> i'm worried for all the reasons you all listed but also because i also
> have
> three other tanks in the studio (as someone else mentioned as well). I
> don't
> have access to the outside on the wall of the studio because the studio
> building had a residential house on the other side that ironically used to
> be a welding studio (but no access anymore). I don't plan anything fancy
> other than just some ornamental forging. I've got a full metalshop which
> i've had for many years but just getting into the forge stuff.
> so, i guess i'll just get a few bbq tanks for now since i can't seem to
> get
> anyone to deliver me a tank inside. I'm very sensitive to the carbon m.
> stuff i know since i almost passed out a few times in my blacksmith course
> and had to keep opening the door there. So i'm gathering i should keep an
> open window above it for air and turn my fume extractor over it once in
> awhile? I was rebuilding a squirrel cage exhaust in the window near it.
> What
> i have is one wall of windows where the forge is, one can be open but
> onenext to it has the fume thing. Is this pointless because they are side
> by
> side windows?
> thoughts?
> thanks again. i was so excited about the forge now i'm just worried which
> is
> so sad.
> ~K~
>
> On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 10:46 PM, <theforge-request at mailman.qth.net>
> wrote:
>
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. indoor forges (Lucky7Steel)
>> 2. Re: indoor forges (sos at frii.com)
>> 3. Re: indoor forges (ries)
>> 4. Re: indoor forges (Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer)
>> 5. Re: indoor forges (PlumDon at aol.com)
>> 6. Re: "Sea Kittens"??? OT (Jerry Frost)
>> 7. Re: indoor forges (Jerry Frost)
>> 8. Re: "Sea Kittens"??? OT (Andrew Vida)
>> 9. Re: "Sea Kittens"??? OT (Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 16:37:58 -0500
>> From: Lucky7Steel <lucky7steel at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [TheForge] indoor forges
>> To: theforge at mailman.qth.net
>> Message-ID:
>> <d88673cd0901211337h742299e5k959d93d5c3ebeaca at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Hi there,
>>
>> Do any of you folks have inside forges?
>> I assume people do but i'm having propane worries. I'm wondering where
>> people get their propane and hoping people can make me feel better about
>> it.
>> I know it's a no no if you ask the gas companies. I just put together my
>> new
>> forge and now i'm feeling so discouraged :-(
>>
>> ~K~
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 14:49:38 -0700 (MST)
>> From: sos at frii.com
>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] indoor forges
>> To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>> Message-ID: <4670.74.209.46.210.1232574578.squirrel at users.frii.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
>>
>> I have mine indoors. The local propane company put a big bottle (200
>> gallons?) just outside the shop, feeding a furnace (low pressure) and
>> installed a high pressure line with a ball valve on the end in the shop
>> for the forge (with my regulator). They didn't feel comfortable giving
>> me
>> more than 15psi, but that works fine.
>>
>> Propane is heavier than air, and can collect in low spots. It would be a
>> real bad idea to run in the basement.
>>
>> The other issue with any indoor combustion is carbon monoxide. You must
>> have a good outside air supply to the forge, and a good way to exhaust
>> it
>> after burning (a chimney...). This is very important. Adding a CO
>> detector
>> is a fine idea, they are pretty cheap. I'd get the kind with a readout
>> if
>> I was going to do it again.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> > Hi there,
>> >
>> > Do any of you folks have inside forges?
>> > I assume people do but i'm having propane worries. I'm wondering where
>> > people get their propane and hoping people can make me feel better
>> about
>> > it.
>> > I know it's a no no if you ask the gas companies. I just put together
>> my
>> > new
>> > forge and now i'm feeling so discouraged :-(
>> >
>> > ~K~
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
>> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
>> > theforge mail list group photo site is
>> > http://www.photoaccess.com
>> > Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
>> > password: anvil
>> > ___________
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:22:40 -0800
>> From: ries <ries at riesniemi.com>
>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] indoor forges
>> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>> Message-ID: <9F113BCD-0DC9-412C-A9BF-1A9CCDF1BE92 at riesniemi.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>>
>> I run my propane forge inside the shop.
>> I have a 100lb propane tank, the size that is about 18" in diameter
>> and 4 feet tall, on the cart that the forge is mounted on.
>> Not too worried about storing the propane tank in the shop, as I also
>> have acetylene, oxygen, a few argons, and some carbon dioxide mix
>> tanks, as well as a couple of small propane tanks and a spare propane
>> tank for the forklift, all stored inside too.
>>
>> Of more concern to me is the combustion giving off gases that might
>> cause me to stop breathing.
>> I do have a big, sliding garage door, but unless its hot, I usually
>> keep that closed while forging. I also have exhaust fans, that I
>> sometimes run, with a window open, to run air thru the shop.
>> I keep meaning to buy a carbon monoxide detector, for the shop, but so
>> far, nobody has passed out or gotten headaches, in the last ten years
>> or so of running the forge in the shop, so I am guessing that, quality
>> of breathable atmosphere wise, the forge isnt killing us.
>>
>> Ries
>>
>> On Jan 21, 2009, at 1:37 PM, Lucky7Steel wrote:
>>
>> Hi there,
>>
>> Do any of you folks have inside forges?
>> I assume people do but i'm having propane worries. I'm wondering where
>> people get their propane and hoping people can make me feel better
>> about it. I know it's a no no if you ask the gas companies. I just put
>> together my new forge and now i'm feeling so discouraged :-(
>>
>> ~K~
>> _______________________________________________
>> Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
>> theforge mail list group photo site is
>> http://www.photoaccess.com
>> Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
>> password: anvil
>> ___________
>>
>>
>>
>> Ries Niemi
>> Industrial Artist
>> http://www.riesniemi.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:38:09 -0800
>> From: Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer <artgawk at thegrid.net>
>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] indoor forges
>> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>> Message-ID: <4977B1E1.80504 at thegrid.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> Comes down to a question of ventilation, both high and low.
>> Got that and you are most of the way to OK..pf
>>
>> ries wrote:
>> > I run my propane forge inside the shop.
>> > I have a 100lb propane tank, the size that is about 18" in diameter
>> > and 4 feet tall, on the cart that the forge is mounted on.
>> > Not too worried about storing the propane tank in the shop, as I also
>> > have acetylene, oxygen, a few argons, and some carbon dioxide mix
>> > tanks, as well as a couple of small propane tanks and a spare propane
>> > tank for the forklift, all stored inside too.
>> >
>> > Of more concern to me is the combustion giving off gases that might
>> > cause me to stop breathing.
>> > I do have a big, sliding garage door, but unless its hot, I usually
>> > keep that closed while forging. I also have exhaust fans, that I
>> > sometimes run, with a window open, to run air thru the shop.
>> > I keep meaning to buy a carbon monoxide detector, for the shop, but so
>> > far, nobody has passed out or gotten headaches, in the last ten years
>> > or so of running the forge in the shop, so I am guessing that, quality
>> > of breathable atmosphere wise, the forge isnt killing us.
>> >
>> > Ries
>> >
>> > On Jan 21, 2009, at 1:37 PM, Lucky7Steel wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi there,
>> >
>> > Do any of you folks have inside forges?
>> > I assume people do but i'm having propane worries. I'm wondering where
>> > people get their propane and hoping people can make me feel better
>> > about it. I know it's a no no if you ask the gas companies. I just put
>> > together my new forge and now i'm feeling so discouraged :-(
>> >
>> > ~K~
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
>> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
>> > theforge mail list group photo site is
>> > http://www.photoaccess.com
>> > Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
>> > password: anvil
>> > ___________
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Ries Niemi
>> > Industrial Artist
>> > http://www.riesniemi.com/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
>> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
>> > theforge mail list group photo site is
>> > http://www.photoaccess.com
>> > Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
>> > password: anvil
>> > ___________
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 18:40:43 EST
>> From: PlumDon at aol.com
>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] indoor forges
>> To: theforge at mailman.qth.net
>> Message-ID: <c18.4aa65130.36a90c7b at aol.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>>
>> Of the dozens of blacksmiths I know that use propane every one of them
>> runs
>> the forge inside their shop. My shop is too far from a delivery point so
>> I
>> have three 100 pound containers that I trek around to get filled and
>> keep
>> them
>> lined up outside the shop. Copper tubing through a hole punched in the
>> concrete wall takes the gas to the forge. I always have an upper window
>> open.
>> There's a shutoff at the tank and another at the forge. I shut them
>> both
>> off when
>> done. It's possible someone could open them both up, the propane would
>> fill up
>> the shop and when I opened the door next morning kaboom. But been ok
>> for
>> the
>> last 22 years. It's possible the gas tank in my truck was punctured on
>> the
>> way home today and it all leaked out during the night. When I start it
>> in
>> the
>> morning it could go kaboom. But we exercise reasonable measures of care
>> and
>> safety and we do fine.
>>
>>
>> Do any of you folks have inside forges?
>> I assume people do but i'm having propane worries. I'm wondering where
>> people get their propane and hoping people can make me feel better
>> about it. I know it's a no no if you ask the gas companies. I just put
>> together my new forge and now i'm feeling so discouraged :-(
>>
>> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2
>> easy
>> steps!
>> (
>> http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De
>> cemailfooterNO62<http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=DecemailfooterNO62>
>> )
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:27:56 -0900
>> From: "Jerry Frost" <akfrosty at mtaonline.net>
>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] "Sea Kittens"??? OT
>> To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>> Message-ID: <FA5351D6D4534C83B3762096B58382CA at albatross>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>> reply-type=original
>>
>> "FIGHIN" words?
>>
>> Frosty
>> -------------------------------
>> If it ain't forged
>> it ain't real.
>> Wrought iron is.
>> The FrostWorks
>>
>> Meadow Lakes, AK.
>>
>>
>> From: "Andrew Vida" <osan at netlabs.net>
>>
>> > Oooo... them's fighin' words.
>> >
>> > Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer wrote:
>> >> We are too old now to have such ambitions anymore
>> >> jerry.
>> >> Why are you panning it? They are most everywhere
>> >> wet, pant, pant.
>> >> The thinking leans you to the zoo side some.
>> >>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:41:54 -0900
>> From: "Jerry Frost" <akfrosty at mtaonline.net>
>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] indoor forges
>> To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>> Message-ID: <62A6067BD2D843B893D2C43EDB904F4A at albatross>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>> reply-type=original
>>
>> No gas company will encourage you to build and operate
>> a home made gas appliance. The liability they'd be
>> exposed to if you blew yourself up, burned yourself out
>> or poisoned yourself would wipe them out. They have to
>> try discouraging you. If you're not sure of what you're
>> doing or aren't familiar with experimenting your way
>> through inherently dangerous endeavors I won't
>> encourage you to try either.
>>
>> That said, propane is heavier than air and will settle
>> in low spots waiting for a spark to ignite. Carbon
>> monoxide is also heavier than air and will pool in low
>> places waiting to displace the oxy in your hemoglobin
>> and kill you. The forge burner will consume large
>> amounts of oxygen and if you don't replace it you'll
>> run short sooner or later. The forge burner will also
>> make unpleasant byproducts like water vapor to condence
>> on your tools and machinery and rust them right up.
>> It'll also be generally acidic condensate as well
>> seeing as a properly operating forge is hot enough to
>> make nitrous oxide as a by product to assist in
>> corroding your tools and equipment.
>>
>> Most of this can be solved by taking basic precautions.
>> Do not operate a propane appliance of any kind where a
>> leak can settle into low places like a grease pit or
>> basement. Ventilation to remove heavy gasses is a
>> really good idea. Heck, a must.
>>
>> 1/4 turn gas rated (red handle) valves where you can
>> get to them in an emergency is a really good idea.
>>
>> Be sure you have a couple fire extinguishers close to
>> the exits too. Don't put them where you think a fire
>> might break out. If one does your fire extinguisher is
>> going to be IN the fire itself OR you'll find yourself
>> running the WRONG way in an emergency. If you're locky
>> there will be a narrow window where one person with a
>> fire extinguisher can put it out but we're talking
>> seconds. If you're caught on the wrong side of a fire
>> when that window closes it may be curtains for you.
>> Best to have the extinguishers by the exits so when you
>> get to them and turn around you can see it's too late
>> and get out. Getting OUT is the important thing, not
>> saving a shop, some tools, etc.
>>
>> It's good you're asking these questions now and not
>> after you're hospitalized for CO poisoning or waiting
>> for the ashes to cool enough to see what you can
>> salvage.
>>
>> Frosty
>> -------------------------------
>> If it ain't forged
>> it ain't real.
>> Wrought iron is.
>> The FrostWorks
>>
>> Meadow Lakes, AK.
>>
>>
>> From: "Lucky7Steel" <lucky7steel at gmail.com>
>>
>>
>> > Hi there,
>> >
>> > Do any of you folks have inside forges?
>> > I assume people do but i'm having propane worries.
>> > I'm wondering where
>> > people get their propane and hoping people can make
>> > me feel better about it.
>> > I know it's a no no if you ask the gas companies. I
>> > just put together my new
>> > forge and now i'm feeling so discouraged :-(
>> >
>> > ~K~
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 8
>> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 22:28:16 -0500
>> From: Andrew Vida <osan at netlabs.net>
>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] "Sea Kittens"??? OT
>> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>> Message-ID: <4977E7D0.2010308 at netlabs.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> Old guys don't "fight", they "figh".
>>
>> Jerry Frost wrote:
>> > "FIGHIN" words?
>> >
>> > Frosty
>> > -------------------------------
>> > If it ain't forged
>> > it ain't real.
>> > Wrought iron is.
>> > The FrostWorks
>> >
>> > Meadow Lakes, AK.
>> >
>> >
>> > From: "Andrew Vida" <osan at netlabs.net>
>> >
>> >> Oooo... them's fighin' words.
>> >>
>> >> Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer wrote:
>> >>> We are too old now to have such ambitions anymore
>> >>> jerry.
>> >>> Why are you panning it? They are most everywhere
>> >>> wet, pant, pant.
>> >>> The thinking leans you to the zoo side some.
>> >>>
>> >
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 9
>> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 19:46:02 -0800
>> From: Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer <artgawk at thegrid.net>
>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] "Sea Kittens"??? OT
>> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>> Message-ID: <4977EBFA.50503 at thegrid.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> Cause of missing teeth or cause they can't hear the consonants anymore?
>>
>> Andrew Vida wrote:
>> > Old guys don't "fight", they "figh".
>> >
>> > Jerry Frost wrote:
>> >> "FIGHIN" words?
>> >>
>> >> Frosty
>> >> -------------------------------
>> >> If it ain't forged
>> >> it ain't real.
>> >> Wrought iron is.
>> >> The FrostWorks
>> >>
>> >> Meadow Lakes, AK.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> From: "Andrew Vida" <osan at netlabs.net>
>> >>
>> >>> Oooo... them's fighin' words.
>> >>>
>> >>> Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer wrote:
>> >>>> We are too old now to have such ambitions anymore
>> >>>> jerry.
>> >>>> Why are you panning it? They are most everywhere
>> >>>> wet, pant, pant.
>> >>>> The thinking leans you to the zoo side some.
>> >>>>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
>> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
>> > theforge mail list group photo site is
>> > http://www.photoaccess.com
>> > Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
>> > password: anvil
>> > ___________
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
>> theforge mail list group photo site is
>> http://www.photoaccess.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> End of TheForge Digest, Vol 60, Issue 78
>> ****************************************
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> theforge mail list group photo site is
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> password: anvil
> ___________
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>
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