[TheForge] TheForge Digest, Vol 60, Issue 78
Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer
artgawk at thegrid.net
Mon Jan 26 02:06:07 EST 2009
K.
A little addition;
Either store your propane tanks outside or make sure there is
significant, open, floor level venting when they are inside.
You can gang the little one's up, with some gas fitting type hardware.
The problem with the BBQ size is that they tend to freeze up under forge
level use and the pressure drops at just the wrong time. A bigger,
adjustable regulator is desirable for the same reason.
Plunking them in a tub of warm water helps.
Kinda funny, you open the valves desiring fire and the silly thing
freezes on you.
Oh yeah, never touch your tongue to....pf
Lucky7Steel wrote:
> Thanks everyone for all the helpful info.
>
> i'm worried for all the reasons you all listed but also because i also
> have three other tanks in the studio (as someone else mentioned as
> well). I don't have access to the outside on the wall of the studio
> because the studio building had a residential house on the other side
> that ironically used to be a welding studio (but no access anymore). I
> don't plan anything fancy other than just some ornamental forging. I've
> got a full metalshop which i've had for many years but just getting into
> the forge stuff.
> so, i guess i'll just get a few bbq tanks for now since i can't seem to
> get anyone to deliver me a tank inside. I'm very sensitive to the carbon
> m. stuff i know since i almost passed out a few times in my blacksmith
> course and had to keep opening the door there. So i'm gathering i should
> keep an open window above it for air and turn my fume extractor over it
> once in awhile? I was rebuilding a squirrel cage exhaust in the window
> near it. What i have is one wall of windows where the forge is, one can
> be open but onenext to it has the fume thing. Is this pointless because
> they are side by side windows?
> thoughts?
> thanks again. i was so excited about the forge now i'm just worried
> which is so sad.
> ~K~
>
> On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 10:46 PM, <theforge-request at mailman.qth.net
> <mailto:theforge-request at mailman.qth.net>> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. indoor forges (Lucky7Steel)
> 2. Re: indoor forges (sos at frii.com <mailto:sos at frii.com>)
> 3. Re: indoor forges (ries)
> 4. Re: indoor forges (Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer)
> 5. Re: indoor forges (PlumDon at aol.com <mailto:PlumDon at aol.com>)
> 6. Re: "Sea Kittens"??? OT (Jerry Frost)
> 7. Re: indoor forges (Jerry Frost)
> 8. Re: "Sea Kittens"??? OT (Andrew Vida)
> 9. Re: "Sea Kittens"??? OT (Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 16:37:58 -0500
> From: Lucky7Steel <lucky7steel at gmail.com <mailto:lucky7steel at gmail.com>>
> Subject: [TheForge] indoor forges
> To: theforge at mailman.qth.net <mailto:theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID:
> <d88673cd0901211337h742299e5k959d93d5c3ebeaca at mail.gmail.com
> <mailto:d88673cd0901211337h742299e5k959d93d5c3ebeaca at mail.gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi there,
>
> Do any of you folks have inside forges?
> I assume people do but i'm having propane worries. I'm wondering where
> people get their propane and hoping people can make me feel better
> about it.
> I know it's a no no if you ask the gas companies. I just put
> together my new
> forge and now i'm feeling so discouraged :-(
>
> ~K~
> -------------- next part --------------
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 14:49:38 -0700 (MST)
> From: sos at frii.com <mailto:sos at frii.com>
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] indoor forges
> To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA"
> <theforge at mailman.qth.net <mailto:theforge at mailman.qth.net>>
> Message-ID: <4670.74.209.46.210.1232574578.squirrel at users.frii.com
> <mailto:4670.74.209.46.210.1232574578.squirrel at users.frii.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
>
> I have mine indoors. The local propane company put a big bottle (200
> gallons?) just outside the shop, feeding a furnace (low pressure) and
> installed a high pressure line with a ball valve on the end in the shop
> for the forge (with my regulator). They didn't feel comfortable
> giving me
> more than 15psi, but that works fine.
>
> Propane is heavier than air, and can collect in low spots. It would be a
> real bad idea to run in the basement.
>
> The other issue with any indoor combustion is carbon monoxide. You must
> have a good outside air supply to the forge, and a good way to
> exhaust it
> after burning (a chimney...). This is very important. Adding a CO
> detector
> is a fine idea, they are pretty cheap. I'd get the kind with a
> readout if
> I was going to do it again.
>
> Steve
>
> > Hi there,
> >
> > Do any of you folks have inside forges?
> > I assume people do but i'm having propane worries. I'm wondering
> where
> > people get their propane and hoping people can make me feel
> better about
> > it.
> > I know it's a no no if you ask the gas companies. I just put
> together my
> > new
> > forge and now i'm feeling so discouraged :-(
> >
> > ~K~
> > _______________________________________________
> > Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> > theforge mail list group photo site is
> > http://www.photoaccess.com
> > Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> <mailto:blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com>
> > password: anvil
> > ___________
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:22:40 -0800
> From: ries <ries at riesniemi.com <mailto:ries at riesniemi.com>>
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] indoor forges
> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net
> <mailto:theforge at mailman.qth.net>>
> Message-ID: <9F113BCD-0DC9-412C-A9BF-1A9CCDF1BE92 at riesniemi.com
> <mailto:9F113BCD-0DC9-412C-A9BF-1A9CCDF1BE92 at riesniemi.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> I run my propane forge inside the shop.
> I have a 100lb propane tank, the size that is about 18" in diameter
> and 4 feet tall, on the cart that the forge is mounted on.
> Not too worried about storing the propane tank in the shop, as I also
> have acetylene, oxygen, a few argons, and some carbon dioxide mix
> tanks, as well as a couple of small propane tanks and a spare propane
> tank for the forklift, all stored inside too.
>
> Of more concern to me is the combustion giving off gases that might
> cause me to stop breathing.
> I do have a big, sliding garage door, but unless its hot, I usually
> keep that closed while forging. I also have exhaust fans, that I
> sometimes run, with a window open, to run air thru the shop.
> I keep meaning to buy a carbon monoxide detector, for the shop, but so
> far, nobody has passed out or gotten headaches, in the last ten years
> or so of running the forge in the shop, so I am guessing that, quality
> of breathable atmosphere wise, the forge isnt killing us.
>
> Ries
>
> On Jan 21, 2009, at 1:37 PM, Lucky7Steel wrote:
>
> Hi there,
>
> Do any of you folks have inside forges?
> I assume people do but i'm having propane worries. I'm wondering where
> people get their propane and hoping people can make me feel better
> about it. I know it's a no no if you ask the gas companies. I just put
> together my new forge and now i'm feeling so discouraged :-(
>
> ~K~
> _______________________________________________
> Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> theforge mail list group photo site is
> http://www.photoaccess.com
> Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> <mailto:blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com>
> password: anvil
> ___________
>
>
>
> Ries Niemi
> Industrial Artist
> http://www.riesniemi.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:38:09 -0800
> From: Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer <artgawk at thegrid.net
> <mailto:artgawk at thegrid.net>>
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] indoor forges
> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net
> <mailto:theforge at mailman.qth.net>>
> Message-ID: <4977B1E1.80504 at thegrid.net
> <mailto:4977B1E1.80504 at thegrid.net>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Comes down to a question of ventilation, both high and low.
> Got that and you are most of the way to OK..pf
>
> ries wrote:
> > I run my propane forge inside the shop.
> > I have a 100lb propane tank, the size that is about 18" in diameter
> > and 4 feet tall, on the cart that the forge is mounted on.
> > Not too worried about storing the propane tank in the shop, as I also
> > have acetylene, oxygen, a few argons, and some carbon dioxide mix
> > tanks, as well as a couple of small propane tanks and a spare propane
> > tank for the forklift, all stored inside too.
> >
> > Of more concern to me is the combustion giving off gases that might
> > cause me to stop breathing.
> > I do have a big, sliding garage door, but unless its hot, I usually
> > keep that closed while forging. I also have exhaust fans, that I
> > sometimes run, with a window open, to run air thru the shop.
> > I keep meaning to buy a carbon monoxide detector, for the shop,
> but so
> > far, nobody has passed out or gotten headaches, in the last ten years
> > or so of running the forge in the shop, so I am guessing that,
> quality
> > of breathable atmosphere wise, the forge isnt killing us.
> >
> > Ries
> >
> > On Jan 21, 2009, at 1:37 PM, Lucky7Steel wrote:
> >
> > Hi there,
> >
> > Do any of you folks have inside forges?
> > I assume people do but i'm having propane worries. I'm wondering
> where
> > people get their propane and hoping people can make me feel better
> > about it. I know it's a no no if you ask the gas companies. I
> just put
> > together my new forge and now i'm feeling so discouraged :-(
> >
> > ~K~
> > _______________________________________________
> > Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> > theforge mail list group photo site is
> > http://www.photoaccess.com
> > Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> <mailto:blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com>
> > password: anvil
> > ___________
> >
> >
> >
> > Ries Niemi
> > Industrial Artist
> > http://www.riesniemi.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> > theforge mail list group photo site is
> > http://www.photoaccess.com
> > Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> <mailto:blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com>
> > password: anvil
> > ___________
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 18:40:43 EST
> From: PlumDon at aol.com <mailto:PlumDon at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] indoor forges
> To: theforge at mailman.qth.net <mailto:theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID: <c18.4aa65130.36a90c7b at aol.com
> <mailto:c18.4aa65130.36a90c7b at aol.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Of the dozens of blacksmiths I know that use propane every one of
> them runs
> the forge inside their shop. My shop is too far from a delivery
> point so I
> have three 100 pound containers that I trek around to get filled
> and keep them
> lined up outside the shop. Copper tubing through a hole punched in the
> concrete wall takes the gas to the forge. I always have an upper
> window open.
> There's a shutoff at the tank and another at the forge. I shut them
> both off when
> done. It's possible someone could open them both up, the propane
> would fill up
> the shop and when I opened the door next morning kaboom. But been
> ok for the
> last 22 years. It's possible the gas tank in my truck was punctured
> on the
> way home today and it all leaked out during the night. When I start
> it in the
> morning it could go kaboom. But we exercise reasonable measures of
> care and
> safety and we do fine.
>
>
> Do any of you folks have inside forges?
> I assume people do but i'm having propane worries. I'm wondering where
> people get their propane and hoping people can make me feel better
> about it. I know it's a no no if you ask the gas companies. I just put
> together my new forge and now i'm feeling so discouraged :-(
>
> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:27:56 -0900
> From: "Jerry Frost" <akfrosty at mtaonline.net
> <mailto:akfrosty at mtaonline.net>>
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] "Sea Kittens"??? OT
> To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA"
> <theforge at mailman.qth.net <mailto:theforge at mailman.qth.net>>
> Message-ID: <FA5351D6D4534C83B3762096B58382CA at albatross>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> "FIGHIN" words?
>
> Frosty
> -------------------------------
> If it ain't forged
> it ain't real.
> Wrought iron is.
> The FrostWorks
>
> Meadow Lakes, AK.
>
>
> From: "Andrew Vida" <osan at netlabs.net <mailto:osan at netlabs.net>>
>
> > Oooo... them's fighin' words.
> >
> > Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer wrote:
> >> We are too old now to have such ambitions anymore
> >> jerry.
> >> Why are you panning it? They are most everywhere
> >> wet, pant, pant.
> >> The thinking leans you to the zoo side some.
> >>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:41:54 -0900
> From: "Jerry Frost" <akfrosty at mtaonline.net
> <mailto:akfrosty at mtaonline.net>>
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] indoor forges
> To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA"
> <theforge at mailman.qth.net <mailto:theforge at mailman.qth.net>>
> Message-ID: <62A6067BD2D843B893D2C43EDB904F4A at albatross>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> No gas company will encourage you to build and operate
> a home made gas appliance. The liability they'd be
> exposed to if you blew yourself up, burned yourself out
> or poisoned yourself would wipe them out. They have to
> try discouraging you. If you're not sure of what you're
> doing or aren't familiar with experimenting your way
> through inherently dangerous endeavors I won't
> encourage you to try either.
>
> That said, propane is heavier than air and will settle
> in low spots waiting for a spark to ignite. Carbon
> monoxide is also heavier than air and will pool in low
> places waiting to displace the oxy in your hemoglobin
> and kill you. The forge burner will consume large
> amounts of oxygen and if you don't replace it you'll
> run short sooner or later. The forge burner will also
> make unpleasant byproducts like water vapor to condence
> on your tools and machinery and rust them right up.
> It'll also be generally acidic condensate as well
> seeing as a properly operating forge is hot enough to
> make nitrous oxide as a by product to assist in
> corroding your tools and equipment.
>
> Most of this can be solved by taking basic precautions.
> Do not operate a propane appliance of any kind where a
> leak can settle into low places like a grease pit or
> basement. Ventilation to remove heavy gasses is a
> really good idea. Heck, a must.
>
> 1/4 turn gas rated (red handle) valves where you can
> get to them in an emergency is a really good idea.
>
> Be sure you have a couple fire extinguishers close to
> the exits too. Don't put them where you think a fire
> might break out. If one does your fire extinguisher is
> going to be IN the fire itself OR you'll find yourself
> running the WRONG way in an emergency. If you're locky
> there will be a narrow window where one person with a
> fire extinguisher can put it out but we're talking
> seconds. If you're caught on the wrong side of a fire
> when that window closes it may be curtains for you.
> Best to have the extinguishers by the exits so when you
> get to them and turn around you can see it's too late
> and get out. Getting OUT is the important thing, not
> saving a shop, some tools, etc.
>
> It's good you're asking these questions now and not
> after you're hospitalized for CO poisoning or waiting
> for the ashes to cool enough to see what you can
> salvage.
>
> Frosty
> -------------------------------
> If it ain't forged
> it ain't real.
> Wrought iron is.
> The FrostWorks
>
> Meadow Lakes, AK.
>
>
> From: "Lucky7Steel" <lucky7steel at gmail.com
> <mailto:lucky7steel at gmail.com>>
>
>
> > Hi there,
> >
> > Do any of you folks have inside forges?
> > I assume people do but i'm having propane worries.
> > I'm wondering where
> > people get their propane and hoping people can make
> > me feel better about it.
> > I know it's a no no if you ask the gas companies. I
> > just put together my new
> > forge and now i'm feeling so discouraged :-(
> >
> > ~K~
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 22:28:16 -0500
> From: Andrew Vida <osan at netlabs.net <mailto:osan at netlabs.net>>
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] "Sea Kittens"??? OT
> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net
> <mailto:theforge at mailman.qth.net>>
> Message-ID: <4977E7D0.2010308 at netlabs.net
> <mailto:4977E7D0.2010308 at netlabs.net>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Old guys don't "fight", they "figh".
>
> Jerry Frost wrote:
> > "FIGHIN" words?
> >
> > Frosty
> > -------------------------------
> > If it ain't forged
> > it ain't real.
> > Wrought iron is.
> > The FrostWorks
> >
> > Meadow Lakes, AK.
> >
> >
> > From: "Andrew Vida" <osan at netlabs.net <mailto:osan at netlabs.net>>
> >
> >> Oooo... them's fighin' words.
> >>
> >> Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer wrote:
> >>> We are too old now to have such ambitions anymore
> >>> jerry.
> >>> Why are you panning it? They are most everywhere
> >>> wet, pant, pant.
> >>> The thinking leans you to the zoo side some.
> >>>
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 19:46:02 -0800
> From: Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer <artgawk at thegrid.net
> <mailto:artgawk at thegrid.net>>
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] "Sea Kittens"??? OT
> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net
> <mailto:theforge at mailman.qth.net>>
> Message-ID: <4977EBFA.50503 at thegrid.net
> <mailto:4977EBFA.50503 at thegrid.net>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Cause of missing teeth or cause they can't hear the consonants anymore?
>
> Andrew Vida wrote:
> > Old guys don't "fight", they "figh".
> >
> > Jerry Frost wrote:
> >> "FIGHIN" words?
> >>
> >> Frosty
> >> -------------------------------
> >> If it ain't forged
> >> it ain't real.
> >> Wrought iron is.
> >> The FrostWorks
> >>
> >> Meadow Lakes, AK.
> >>
> >>
> >> From: "Andrew Vida" <osan at netlabs.net <mailto:osan at netlabs.net>>
> >>
> >>> Oooo... them's fighin' words.
> >>>
> >>> Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer wrote:
> >>>> We are too old now to have such ambitions anymore
> >>>> jerry.
> >>>> Why are you panning it? They are most everywhere
> >>>> wet, pant, pant.
> >>>> The thinking leans you to the zoo side some.
> >>>>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> > theforge mail list group photo site is
> > http://www.photoaccess.com
> > Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> <mailto:blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com>
> > password: anvil
> > ___________
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> theforge mail list group photo site is
> http://www.photoaccess.com
>
>
>
>
> End of TheForge Digest, Vol 60, Issue 78
> ****************************************
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
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> password: anvil
> ___________
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