[TheForge] local codes OT OT

[Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer]

Andrew Vida wrote:
> 
> Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer wrote:
> 
>> You know the problem there. The narcs in my yard thought they were doing 
>> the right thing...and knowingly ignored what they thought was a crap 
>> law...We'd rather they used less of their judgment mostly if we are 
>> going to have " a nation of laws".
> 
> 	Eeesh... an absolutely horrible concept, as commonly regarded.  Law is 
> placed on a pedestal, as if it was somehow divine.  It isn't.  It is a 
> human contrivance and is as easily crap as it is reasonable.  In fact, 
> it is far more often crap than anything else.  Worshiping this sort of 
> thing is not sane.
Like democracy, it's a pitiful thing, but we ain't got nuttin better 
that lasts more than a generation or 2.
We do not have, nor will we become, a society of thinking, responsible 
adult citizens. The system has to muddle through with that inherent 
handicap.
Just to argue a point i don't altogether support......
Do you really want to arm the gullible? Grin.
There would be those who'd say, that's you and me.
> 
>>>>> 	Only because most of us have abdicated responsibility for our own lives 
>>>>> at the most fundamental levels.
>> Huh..What's that got to do with coping with criminality?
> 
> 	Were we more in possession of ourselves WRT, for example, defense of 
> life and limb against violence, we would be better off.  In all the 
> places I've lived where people carry firearms, crime is lower than in 
> places where they do not.  In the former, people are more responsible 
> for their own wellbeing and far less dependent on police.  This strikes 
> me as a good thing and my experience backs it up.
Holland? Denmark? Sweden?
> 
>  > We supposed to
>> shoot them for cause? I don't trust my fellow man that much at all.
And if they killed the chickens i loved, just for fun?
> 
> 	If the cause is life and death, sure.  Would you sit idly as someone 
> gutted you like a fish?  I wouldn't and I haven't.  Had I, pretty 
> certain I would be dead.
Choices on that level are obvious...but people in different states of 
mind interpret their circumstances very differently from each other 
sometimes.
> 
>>    They do a lot of good stuff, but the
>>>>> bad that is done undoes all of that.
>> On the balance, i disagree...However disappointing they sometimes 
>> are...we are a whole lot better off with them on the job.
> 
> 	How about when LA county sheriffs raided that old guy's house on a 
> false drug raid just to take his house?  They murdered him, the DA had 
> them dead to rights and had he chosen to prosecute, they would have 
> rightly fried.  That they were not even tried - do you see any good 
> there.  I see everything good any of those people ever did as being 
> completely eclipsed by this one act of deliberate crime.  Destructive 
> action is far and away more potent than constructive.  One negative act 
> can undo a lifetime of good.
Disagree again...you are talking about just a few incidents ( a day?) 
compared to the terrifying chaos we'd see in an LA without cops.
You had to reach all the way across the country and back in time, to 
find that example. The cops were outed in the paper and the policy might 
even have changed.
Hell, it made the paper. So it's by definition unusual. ( or at least 
that it was exposed was unusual).
Leseee...talks to chickens, believes what he reads in the paper, carries 
a gun and knows how to use it!!! An armed chicken sympathizer! There 
room there beside you Andy?
> 
>>>> Nah...once again you are reducing it to a black and white issue..too 
>>>> simplistic.  
>>> 	Not at the heart of it.  You just said it yourself above - it is our 
>>> fault.  That includes everyone.
As soon as you include everyone, things get gray fast.
>> Look...they re elected Bush, is the reality...idealism aside, what can 
>> you realistically expect?
> 
> 	That is a whole other kettle of fish.
It's a fine indicator of the quality of the decisions we can anticipate 
in the future.
  We speak normatively on the one
> hand, and positively on the other.  We can't achieve the normative 
> ideals, but on the positive side there is no reason we cannot do a whole 
> hell of a lot better.  IMO.
The idealist in me nods, but..
Oh , you know the reasons too;
We push the steaming pile in the direction of our druthers as well as we 
can.
Hope it stops smelling so bad pretty quick.
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