[TheForge] grizzly high precision tool room metal lathe

[ries]

I generally do not have a high opinion of Grizzly machine tools.
Their woodworking tools are good value for the money, and I know a lot  
of professional woodworkers who use Grizz every day, and like em a lot.
But machine tools? Nope.

However, this whole "buy american" thing is a bit misleading, when it  
comes to lathes.

You must compare apples to apples, and, there are currently only two  
models of lathe being made in america- the Monarch 10EE, and the  
Hardinge HLVH. Both are well north or $50,000 new.

Any other american made lathe is a used machine, of uncertain  
provenance, which must be evaluated individually. Some are great, some  
are worn out POS. All are 30 to 100 years old at this point, virtually  
none have any replacement parts available, and most older american  
lathes are designed before the second world war.
That means they were designed, and built before carbide tooling.
In todays world, with today's materials (titanium, stainless alloys,  
inconel, and so on, all of which feature heavily in undersea  
equipment) its not very practical to try to use a lathe that has a top  
speed of 800 rpm.
So while those great old lathes are great, especially if you find the  
1 in 100 that is in perfect shape, most are not very practical for  
what terry wants.
Tiny bores, like 24" lathes with 1 1/8" spindle holes.
very low top speeds
worn parts that are not replaceable- all of these are pretty common on  
older cinncinatti's, Leblonde's, American Pacemakers, Monarch's, and  
so on.
If what you wanted was a very large lathe, like a 36" x 300", for  
doing mild steel shaft or roll work, or threading pipe, then one of  
these old beasts would be great. But for what Terry is describing, he  
wants a toolroom lathe that can do modern materials.

That means a Monarch 10EE, a Hardinge, or a high quality imported euro  
lathe, or maybe a japanese or Korean Mori clone.
All of these are more expensive than a new Grizz, used. And the older  
ones have plenty of problems of their own.
I know a guy who is an engineer at a power plant, and he needed a 24"  
x 120" lathe, one that would work, every day, in a modern shop. He  
bought an older american machine, and had it rebuilt, with a modern  
vfd motor and controls, rescraped and so on. It ended up being a great  
machine- but it cost $50,000 delivered. This is a realistic price for  
a rebuilt american machine, if you dont do all the work yourself and  
buy no name parts on ebay.

If it was me, equipping for what terry wants to do, I would buy a new  
ROMI (from Brazil) or Haas (made in america) small cnc  lathe. They  
are both in the $20,000 to $40,000 range, but can do everything he  
will need, much better, faster, and easier than most older manual  
lathes will. And they will run, without needing rebuilds or  
unavailable parts, right from the first day. A used Haas TL-1 or 2,  
can often be scored for under 20 grand, tooled up.

As for all "asian" lathes being bad- well, you get what you pay for.
A new american 16" x 60" lathe, if one was made, which they have not  
been for close to 25 years, would run around $200,000, based on  
current and historical prices. If you spend $15K to $40k that a new  
Taiwan (not China) lathe in a similar size range costs, you will get a  
lathe that WAAY more than 1/4 as good as an american lathe. If you  
spend more, you get more- there are midrange (in price and quality)  
Korean, and eastern european lathes that are pretty good- but they  
cost $25k to $50k. Then, there are high quality euro lathes that are  
every bit as good as any american lathe ever made, with the added  
bonus of being modern, with contemporary speeds, controls, motors and  
so on- but they are not cheap. Schaublin, Cazaneuve, Weiler, and other  
french,swiss, german, and italian companies still make really good  
lathes- but we americans are so cheap, and so spoiled by chinese  
prices, that most are not even imported here any more- but high end  
manufacturing companies in europe still buy them for their tool rooms.


Ries Niemi
Industrial Artist
http://www.riesniemi.com/