[TheForge] Fw: rant concerning quality of products

Fri Apr 17 19:47:20 EDT 2009

Ries,  I think your are right on with your comments.

Not sure how common "large" tillers are in the USA.  Much of Deere's 
equipment is made for grain, soy bean and cotton farming -- so I don't think 
they have ever done much with tillers.  I would not in the least be 
surprised that the units that Deere sells for their smaller tractors are 
imported from Italy and painted green.  Deere even outsources their small 
diesel engines I think.  In many ways this makes sense to a business --  
tough to be all things to all farmers and do it all well.  Better to buy 
what is not your core product and sell it through your dealers.  Having 
worked in the metals industry in Italy I too have often wondered how they 
turn out such well engineered and built small equipment.

Most of the smaller horsepower PTO drive shafts are made in Italy even when 
they come on USA small equipment such as Bush Hogs and Tillers.  They hold 
up quite well in the under 40 horsepower area.

I have a tiller made here -- King Kutter that has worked well for me for 
about 5 years.  This is brand sold mostly by Tractor Supply Company.  (They 
may even own them.)

Here is a link.    http://www.kingkutter.com/WholeGood.asp?item=Tiller

I have never opened the gear boxes (let a sleeping dog lie) but have had no 
sign of trouble.  The market for these is for very small farms, large home 
gardens and such.  Over all the bearings, shaft sizes etc are well designed. 
But it would not worked extended to 12 or 14 feet pulled behind a full size 
field tractor.  Just a different class of equipment.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "ries" <ries at riesniemi.com>
Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 7:06 PM
To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [TheForge] rant concerning quality of products

> Actually, the Kuhn tiller was perfected by the French Alsatian (hence
> the german sounding name)  blacksmith Joseph Kuhn.
> Blacksmiths around the world did the same thing during the industrial
> revolution- used their ability to actually make things to create new
> products.
> Kuhn is no different from Deere, or Petersen, or many other
> blacksmiths who did this.
> Plenty of Italian smiths have done this too.
>
> I am no expert on farm equipment, but I thought John Deere was famous
> for plows, not tillers.
> These tillers are like a rototiller, but 8 or 10 or 12 feet wide, with
> a 4 speed gearbox to match the speed of the tines to the speed of
> travel.
> Deere doesnt make anything like this for the big tractors, as far as I
> know- they make all kinds of plows, but what they call "tillers" for
> their bigger tractors are a different beast altogether.
>
> This is what is sitting in my field-
> http://www.kuhnnorthamerica.com/internet/webus.nsf/0/A5CA4D4CA917E3D9C12573C50055DA3C?OpenDocument&p=14.2.2.9.2
>
> And Bruce- I am in no way blaming American workers- I KNOW we can
> build anything, as well or better than anybody else.
> I am lamenting the profit driven state of americas CEO's and
> financiers, who chase quick bucks over building real stuff.
>
> There are plenty of US companies that still do make quality products,
> often the best in the world- Just not as many as I wish there were.
>
> I do feel that american workers often feel like its more secure to
> just go to work for a huge company, cash the check, and let somebody
> else worry about the bottom line- and I think that contributed to our
> downfall, though.
>
> In Italy, where I have travelled a lot, there are tons and tons of
> small companies- and, when they start to get profitable, instead of
> selling out, cashing in, and leading a life in your 50's of toys and
> leisure, these small Italian businessmen reinvest in their companies,
> and keep working.
> I have visited a lot of metalworking factories in Italy that are third
> or fourth generation, where the parents gave the biz to the kids,
> rather than taking the money and running. And that level of close
> family control really helps product quality, and focus on the product.
> They had, until 2001, much higher estate taxes than we did- and, they
> still do have a lesser estate tax. So its not our tax structure to
> blame- its our mindset.
> Greed.
> It hasnt helped much in the USA in the last 50 years, no matter how
> much Gordon Gecko said it did.
>
> Ries
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 17, 2009, at 2:53 PM, Keziah's Forge wrote:
>
> The irony of the image is overwhelming: a machine that John Deere the
> blacksmith could not have imagined,  bearing his name, pulling
> Italian and
> French versions of the implement he perfected, because the company he
> founded  can't make a decent one any more.
>
> We have a lot of work to do.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "ries" <ries at riesniemi.com>
> To: "terry l. ridder" <terrylr at blauedonau.com>; "Blacksmithing List
> Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 3:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] rant concerning quality of products
>
>
>> On the subject of Italian versus USA-
>>
>> I went for a walk today, and walked past my big field.
>> I lease it to a real farmer, who farms around 2500 acres here, about a
>> quarter of it in potatos every year.
>> this year is a year for my field for potatoes- they only do em every 4
>> years, and in between plant nitrogen fixing crops, peas or grasses.
>> So they are out there tilling my field.
>>
>> Its 20 acres, and they are using two John Deere 8400T's- huge 225
>> horsepower diesel tracked, as opposed to wheeled tractors. A ten year
>> old used one will run you $80,000, these are hefty machines. So there
>> is no question that this farmer can afford to buy the best.
>> And hooked behind em, are two 10 foot tillers- one of em, a Maschio,
>> Italian tiller.
>> The other, a French made Kuhn.
>> My guess is that for a professional farmer, its a no brainer, that
>> there just isnt an american equivalent thats better than either of
>> these.
>> This guy is as all american as he can be- all his trucks are american,
>> he owns a few million worth of John Deeres, and he would buy US if he
>> could.
>>
>> Sad, but true.
>> There is no real reason we couldnt make a tiller as good as the French
>> or Italians, if we wanted to- if somebody was willing to invest the
>> money to build a quality company, the market is certainly there. But
>> instead, american money men buy watches, or cars, or third houses,
>> they do silly, but profitable, IPO's and leveraged buyouts and CDO
>> swaps.
>>
>>
>> Ries Niemi
>> Industrial Artist
>> http://www.riesniemi.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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> Ries Niemi
> Industrial Artist
> http://www.riesniemi.com/
>
>
>
>
>
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