[TheForge] Fw: Metal working problem...again

[Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer]

Thanks Dave;
That's a really interesting idea. Don't think it'd work for this, but i 
can see other applications..pf

David E. Smucker wrote:
> Have you tried or considered a cast refractory for the back up?  It will not 
> hold up for long, but maybe long enough.  You would need to cast, and then 
> bake it to dry it out.  Since it is only for short term use you might be 
> able to strengthen it by adding some fiber glass to help hold it together. 
> You would also want to cast it in a form to give some level of support 
> around the edges so they would be less likely to blow out.  You could also 
> preheat it so that you would help hold heat it you work piece.
> 
> We used a similar approach to form the spherical sections of large LNG 
> (Liquid Natural Gas) tanks.  They were loaded with force, but not impacts so 
> I not sure hold a refractory would hold up to the impact factor.
> 
> Dave
> 
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer" <artgawk at thegrid.net>
> Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 2:11 AM
> To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Metal working problem...again
> 
>> Grant, the impact of the tooling, even hot, pretty much requires a steel
>> back up.
>> I doubt the tooling would stand up for long working cold...and my 100#
>> TH would be too small. The bronze stock is 1/4" before upsetting and
>> roughing out the shapes.
>> I really sink those punches and stamps .That process distorts everything
>> and results in a lot of displaced metal to the sides of each stamp. The
>> pieces sometimes double in width during the embossing.
>> Preforming would require forging a steel form to back up each separate
>> one-off piece...prohibitive time wise.
>> It's a stubborn problem..but then, so are we.
>>
>> Grant Marcoux wrote:
>>> Pete:   Do the tooling after the gross forming.  If necessary, make a
>>> conforming backer fo rtooling from stiff pitch, or lead; either cast or
>>> worked down with a float file.
>>>
>>> Grant
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
>>> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net]On Behalf Of Peter Fels &
>>> Phoebe Palmer
>>> Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 1:22 PM
>>> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA
>>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Metal working problem...again
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hello all;
>>>> This is a problem that i keep running into, brought it up before, 
>>>> thought
>>> i'd try again.
>>>> I have a batch of small pieces,mostly bronze, belt buckles and openers
>>> mostly, that are in the "road kill" stage
>>> where they are all cut and shaped and i've worked over one side
>>> thoroughly with my treadle hammer and assorted tooling..so they are
>>> pretty detailed.
>>>> Next, i need to give them some 3D shape, depth and form.
>>> I heat up small areas, place them face down on wood ( green pine end
>>> grain) and strike them on the back side.
>>>> That works fine, except for 1 thing...the crisply embossed front sides 
>>>> get
>>> squashed, mashed, mushed and smeared. It's frustrating.
>>>> I'd appreciate any (um, constructive) suggestions.  pete f
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> TheForge mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:TheForge at mailman.qth.net
>>>
>>> TheForge mail list group photo site is
>>> http://www.photoaccess.com
>>> Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
>>> Password: anvil
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> TheForge mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:TheForge at mailman.qth.net
>>>
>>> TheForge mail list group photo site is
>>> http://www.photoaccess.com
>>> Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
>>> Password: anvil
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> TheForge mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:TheForge at mailman.qth.net
>>
>> TheForge mail list group photo site is
>> http://www.photoaccess.com
>> Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
>> Password: anvil
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> TheForge mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:TheForge at mailman.qth.net
> 
> TheForge mail list group photo site is
> http://www.photoaccess.com
> Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> Password: anvil
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>