[TheForge] Fw: Metal working problem...again

[David E. Smucker]

Have you tried or considered a cast refractory for the back up?  It will not 
hold up for long, but maybe long enough.  You would need to cast, and then 
bake it to dry it out.  Since it is only for short term use you might be 
able to strengthen it by adding some fiber glass to help hold it together. 
You would also want to cast it in a form to give some level of support 
around the edges so they would be less likely to blow out.  You could also 
preheat it so that you would help hold heat it you work piece.

We used a similar approach to form the spherical sections of large LNG 
(Liquid Natural Gas) tanks.  They were loaded with force, but not impacts so 
I not sure hold a refractory would hold up to the impact factor.

Dave

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer" <artgawk at thegrid.net>
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 2:11 AM
To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [TheForge] Metal working problem...again

> Grant, the impact of the tooling, even hot, pretty much requires a steel
> back up.
> I doubt the tooling would stand up for long working cold...and my 100#
> TH would be too small. The bronze stock is 1/4" before upsetting and
> roughing out the shapes.
> I really sink those punches and stamps .That process distorts everything
> and results in a lot of displaced metal to the sides of each stamp. The
> pieces sometimes double in width during the embossing.
> Preforming would require forging a steel form to back up each separate
> one-off piece...prohibitive time wise.
> It's a stubborn problem..but then, so are we.
>
> Grant Marcoux wrote:
>> Pete:   Do the tooling after the gross forming.  If necessary, make a
>> conforming backer fo rtooling from stiff pitch, or lead; either cast or
>> worked down with a float file.
>>
>> Grant
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
>> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net]On Behalf Of Peter Fels &
>> Phoebe Palmer
>> Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 1:22 PM
>> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA
>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Metal working problem...again
>>
>>
>>> Hello all;
>>> This is a problem that i keep running into, brought it up before, 
>>> thought
>> i'd try again.
>>> I have a batch of small pieces,mostly bronze, belt buckles and openers
>> mostly, that are in the "road kill" stage
>> where they are all cut and shaped and i've worked over one side
>> thoroughly with my treadle hammer and assorted tooling..so they are
>> pretty detailed.
>>> Next, i need to give them some 3D shape, depth and form.
>> I heat up small areas, place them face down on wood ( green pine end
>> grain) and strike them on the back side.
>>> That works fine, except for 1 thing...the crisply embossed front sides 
>>> get
>> squashed, mashed, mushed and smeared. It's frustrating.
>>> I'd appreciate any (um, constructive) suggestions.  pete f
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