[TheForge] fire steels

Fri May 16 14:35:52 EDT 2008

This is not a chemistry thing, this is direct observation.  Put a
piece of mild steel in the forge, get it so hot it burns in the forge
- sparkles like Vesuvius.  Let it cool.  Ugly blistered steel.  Take
to grinder - tests as high carbon.  Try it yourself.

Bruce
NJ

On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 11:32 AM, David E. Smucker
<davesmucker at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Are you sure Bruce, just because iron is burning doesn't mean it is somehow
> taking up carbon.  Explain the chemistry -- for it to burn doesn't there
> have to be excess O2?  Or is burning iron striping the O from CO.
>
> When burning or lancing steel the product I find are melted steel balls and
> red iron oxide.  When we cut up a large backup roll in my old day job (think
> tank trucks of liquid O2) the lancing generated a heavy cloud of red iron
> oxide.  I have never burned wrought or pure iron on the other hand.
>
> Dave
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Bruce Freeman" <freemab222 at gmail.com>
> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 9:40 AM
> To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] fire steels
>
>> Even easier -- That piece of iron you burned in the forge while your
>> brain was where it shouldn't be - that has absorbed enough carbon to
>> be a striker.  Forge it into shape and  no need to use expensive
>> steel.
>>
>> Bruce
>> NJ
>>
>> On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 3:29 AM, Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer
>> <artgawk at thegrid.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Predictability in a striker seems less than critical.
>>> They could have soaked a thin pieces of iron in a reducing fire for a
>>> while
>>> to make steel on the cheap i'd guess...pf
>>>
>>> Grant Marcoux wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It would hav ebeen the less-predictable blister steel as well!
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
>>>> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net]On Behalf Of Peter Hirst
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 4:42 PM
>>>> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA
>>>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] fire steels
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Didn't mean to suggest that wire was used in period, jus that I was able
>>>> to
>>>> duplicate it that way.  It wasn't just general scarcity of steel in the
>>>> period, it was the particular circumstances of the colony in 1627.   Way
>>>> before the period of Williamsburg.  Essentially subsistence conditions.
>>>>  The
>>>> amount of steel required for a single striker could steel a  large axe
>>>> or
>>>> dozens of  strikers, at a time when labor was a lot more plentiful than
>>>> materials. The smith did not make his living at it.  Was literally dirt
>>>> poor
>>>> like everyone else. It was a huge deal that the colony received its
>>>> first
>>>> two head of cattle that year.  Imagine what a bit of steel was worth.
>>>>
>>>> Keziah
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "David E. Smucker" <davesmucker at hotmail.com>
>>>> To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 5:50 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] fire steels
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> While it is true that "steel" was valuable and somewhat scarce in the
>>>>> 1600
>>>>> and 1700 even harder to come by would be any form of high carbon wire.
>>>>>  So
>>>>> if "fire steels" in that time frame were steeled -- then the high
>>>>> carbon
>>>>> steel was drawn down to a small form by hammer forging.
>>>>>
>>>>> The invention of the slitting mill was I believe in 1752 and was the
>>>>> precursor to the rolling mill.  It was first used on heave hammer iron
>>>>> plate to produce iron bars.  Later used to produce iron nail rod from
>>>>> hammer or rolled sheet.  Drawing of wire followed, but when Eli Whitney
>>>>> was working on his invention of the cotton gin 1793 he had to make his
>>>>> own
>>>>> draw bench to draw high carbon wire because he could not purchase it.
>>>>>  (At
>>>>> least in the then USA).
>>>>>
>>>>> All of this is to say is that getting "small" section steel was a labor
>>>>> of
>>>>> love in the 1600's and first half of the 1700's.  High carbon "blister"
>>>>> steel had been around for some time at this point and files made from
>>>>> this
>>>>> tool steel were very important in the manufacture of all types of
>>>>> equipment. Spring steel for clock making also drove technology in this
>>>>> time frame.
>>>>>
>>>>> One of the most interesting parts about talking to the Williamsburg
>>>>> Blacksmiths at the BAM conference was the discussion about the pay and
>>>>> role of craft workers in the colonial time period and early USA.  By
>>>>> world
>>>>> standards they were highly paid.  They did mostly repair and special
>>>>> work
>>>>> that earned them this high pay.  Production work was imported from
>>>>> England
>>>>> and the continent were labor costs were much lower.  Why the high pay
>>>>> --
>>>>> because in the Americas they could own land, and owning land was the
>>>>> route
>>>>> to wealth.  In England there was no land for them to own, no route to
>>>>> wealth, a good supply of craftsman's so their earning were lower.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lesson to be learned -- blacksmiths should charge as much for their
>>>>> work
>>>>> today as plumbers and electricians.  It is the story of supply and
>>>>> demand.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>>> From: "osan" <osan at netlabs.net>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 4:16 PM
>>>>> To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] fire steels
>>>>>
>>>>>> Peter Hirst wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sorry , thought the reason was clear:  steel was extremely scarce,
>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>> the wire was a conservation measure.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  OK, I could see this... at least in circumstances anyhow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  -Andy
>>>>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Bruce
>> NJ
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-- 
Bruce
NJ