[TheForge] coal or charcoal morph to Evaporust

[Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer]

That is a neat trick Peter.
I'll play with it...thanks....pf

Peter Hirst wrote:
> Sounds like finishing hell to me, but I'm not all that adventurous.  On 
> the other hand, I did discover one neat trick that results in an 
> interesting texturing.  Put the workpiece on the negative clip for a day 
> or two, and you get a huge, fast and unevenly distrubuted rust build 
> up.  Then reverse the polarity back to normal, popping the new rust off 
> and you get texturing that raises pitting to an art form:  more like 
> cratering.  But since the rust happens so fast, its not evenly 
> distributed like it is  if you leave a piece of iron where it can rust 
> slowly and evenly.  Instead,  you get a deep rich texture which when 
> cleaned up bright gives a real organic look, something you culd never do 
> with a tool, and  very different from the tell-tale pitting of the 
> merely neglected or abused piece.  I discovered this when I was setting 
> up electrolysis on a piece that has been kicking around my shop for a 
> couple of years and built up a nice even pitting from a couple of 
> rust/wire wheel cycles.  It just looked like a piece that had been 
> rusted and brushed bright, so I decided to see what would happen if I 
> exaggerated the effect by deliberately rusting it one more time.  Pretty 
> cool result.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer" 
> <artgawk at thegrid.net>
> To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 12:00 AM
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] coal or charcoal morph to Evaporust
> 
> 
>> Thanks Peter;
>> Sounds like finishing fun. Possibly using mixed metals,resists and 
>> inclusions under a patina?
>> peter
>>
>> Peter Hirst wrote:
>>> He means FIRMLY as in electroplated.  Whatever is in the anode that 
>>> can be dissolved --chrome, copper from the battery clip, impurities 
>>> etc -- will migrate through the solution and chemically bond with the 
>>> work piece, but in an uncontrolled manner.  SOme of these bonds are 
>>> as strong as the crystalline structure of the iron itself. And some 
>>> of these can actually promote re-rustingafter the treatment.  This is 
>>> one reason why an alkaline solution is recommended.  No interference 
>>> with the electrolytic reduction at the cathode (+).
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer" 
>>> <artgawk at thegrid.net>
>>> To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 10:23 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] coal or charcoal morph to Evaporust
>>>
>>>
>>>> James;
>>>>
>>>>  "you will end up
>>>> > with all kinds of junk firmly attached to your work piece."
>>>>
>>>> Please expand on this subject ,if the "firmly" part means permanent.
>>>> What is the final surface effect?.......pf
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> James Binnion wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 24, 2008, at 9:51 PM, Peter Hirst wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Frosty:  you answered your own question on the phosphoric acid. 
>>>>>> Nasty stuff in any strength.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is used in many food products at the appropriate dilution (think 
>>>>> soft drinks)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>  Not sure it would work in electrolyte bath.  The electrolysis 
>>>>>> tends to redeposit the iron back onto itself, while the phosphoric 
>>>>>> acid tends to dissolve the elemental iron.  The chemical action of 
>>>>>> the acid and the electrlysis are two different reactions.  The 
>>>>>> sole function of the ion in the bath is to conduct electricity, 
>>>>>> which in turn exactly reverses what happens in the the creation of 
>>>>>> ferric oxide -oxidation. Phosphoric acid dissolves the iron 
>>>>>> itself, which is why its used to etch for other fininsh preps.
>>>>>
>>>>> The rust dissolving nature of your electrolytic setup is from the 
>>>>> reduction of the iron oxide (rust) back to iron by the atomic 
>>>>> hydrogen liberated at the cathode(-) from the electrolysis of the 
>>>>> water in your electrolyte. If you use an acid like phosphoric in 
>>>>> the electrolyte solution you will end up dissolving the anode(-) 
>>>>> into the electrolyte and those ions will then plate out on the 
>>>>> workpiece which you really don't want them to do. This is the basis 
>>>>> for electroplating but your electrolyte will not be a very good 
>>>>> plating solution and you will end up with all kinds of junk firmly 
>>>>> attached to your work piece.
>>>>>
>>>>> James Binnion
>>>>> jbin at well.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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