[TheForge] coal or charcoal morph to Evaporust

[Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer]

Thanks Peter;
Sounds like finishing fun. Possibly using mixed metals,resists and 
inclusions under a patina?
peter

Peter Hirst wrote:
> He means FIRMLY as in electroplated.  Whatever is in the anode that can 
> be dissolved --chrome, copper from the battery clip, impurities etc -- 
> will migrate through the solution and chemically bond with the work 
> piece, but in an uncontrolled manner.  SOme of these bonds are as strong 
> as the crystalline structure of the iron itself. And some of these can 
> actually promote re-rustingafter the treatment.  This is one reason why 
> an alkaline solution is recommended.  No interference with the 
> electrolytic reduction at the cathode (+).
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer" 
> <artgawk at thegrid.net>
> To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 10:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] coal or charcoal morph to Evaporust
> 
> 
>> James;
>>
>>  "you will end up
>> > with all kinds of junk firmly attached to your work piece."
>>
>> Please expand on this subject ,if the "firmly" part means permanent.
>> What is the final surface effect?.......pf
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> James Binnion wrote:
>>>
>>> On Jun 24, 2008, at 9:51 PM, Peter Hirst wrote:
>>>
>>>> Frosty:  you answered your own question on the phosphoric acid. 
>>>> Nasty stuff in any strength.
>>>
>>> It is used in many food products at the appropriate dilution (think 
>>> soft drinks)
>>>
>>>
>>>>  Not sure it would work in electrolyte bath.  The electrolysis tends 
>>>> to redeposit the iron back onto itself, while the phosphoric acid 
>>>> tends to dissolve the elemental iron.  The chemical action of the 
>>>> acid and the electrlysis are two different reactions.  The sole 
>>>> function of the ion in the bath is to conduct electricity, which in 
>>>> turn exactly reverses what happens in the the creation of ferric 
>>>> oxide -oxidation. Phosphoric acid dissolves the iron itself, which 
>>>> is why its used to etch for other fininsh preps.
>>>
>>> The rust dissolving nature of your electrolytic setup is from the 
>>> reduction of the iron oxide (rust) back to iron by the atomic 
>>> hydrogen liberated at the cathode(-) from the electrolysis of the 
>>> water in your electrolyte. If you use an acid like phosphoric in the 
>>> electrolyte solution you will end up dissolving the anode(-) into the 
>>> electrolyte and those ions will then plate out on the workpiece which 
>>> you really don't want them to do. This is the basis for 
>>> electroplating but your electrolyte will not be a very good plating 
>>> solution and you will end up with all kinds of junk firmly attached 
>>> to your work piece.
>>>
>>> James Binnion
>>> jbin at well.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
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