[TheForge] coal or charcoal morph to Evaporust

[Peter Hirst]

He means FIRMLY as in electroplated.  Whatever is in the anode that can be 
dissolved --chrome, copper from the battery clip, impurities etc -- will 
migrate through the solution and chemically bond with the work piece, but in 
an uncontrolled manner.  SOme of these bonds are as strong as the 
crystalline structure of the iron itself. And some of these can actually 
promote re-rustingafter the treatment.  This is one reason why an alkaline 
solution is recommended.  No interference with the electrolytic reduction at 
the cathode (+).


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer" <artgawk at thegrid.net>
To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 10:23 PM
Subject: Re: [TheForge] coal or charcoal morph to Evaporust


> James;
>
>  "you will end up
> > with all kinds of junk firmly attached to your work piece."
>
> Please expand on this subject ,if the "firmly" part means permanent.
> What is the final surface effect?.......pf
>
>
>
>
> James Binnion wrote:
>>
>> On Jun 24, 2008, at 9:51 PM, Peter Hirst wrote:
>>
>>> Frosty:  you answered your own question on the phosphoric acid. Nasty 
>>> stuff in any strength.
>>
>> It is used in many food products at the appropriate dilution (think soft 
>> drinks)
>>
>>
>>>  Not sure it would work in electrolyte bath.  The electrolysis tends to 
>>> redeposit the iron back onto itself, while the phosphoric acid tends to 
>>> dissolve the elemental iron.  The chemical action of the acid and the 
>>> electrlysis are two different reactions.  The sole function of the ion 
>>> in the bath is to conduct electricity, which in turn exactly reverses 
>>> what happens in the the creation of ferric oxide -oxidation. Phosphoric 
>>> acid dissolves the iron itself, which is why its used to etch for other 
>>> fininsh preps.
>>
>> The rust dissolving nature of your electrolytic setup is from the 
>> reduction of the iron oxide (rust) back to iron by the atomic hydrogen 
>> liberated at the cathode(-) from the electrolysis of the water in your 
>> electrolyte. If you use an acid like phosphoric in the electrolyte 
>> solution you will end up dissolving the anode(-) into the electrolyte and 
>> those ions will then plate out on the workpiece which you really don't 
>> want them to do. This is the basis for electroplating but your 
>> electrolyte will not be a very good plating solution and you will end up 
>> with all kinds of junk firmly attached to your work piece.
>>
>> James Binnion
>> jbin at well.com
>>
>>
>>
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