[TheForge] "Official" news from ABANA N+1

[Grover Richardson]

Reply re-embedded<G>.

-----Original Message-----
From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
[mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Dave Mudge
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 11:36 PM
To: Sponsored by ABANA
Subject: Re: [TheForge] "Official" news from ABANA N+1

All very good suggestions Grover.

On 2/19/07, Grover Richardson <grover.richardson at gtri.gatech.edu> wrote:
> A renegade solution.
>
> Look at what a good price to charge people to attend will be (based upon
> regional sized conferences).

..........The 2008 Conference Committee was charged with trying to put
together a conference (abana style) based on 650 full paid attendees
where the full package would cost under $600 per full paid attendee.
We were not able to do that given the parameter's with which we had to
work. Meaning at the school at New Paltz, within a given time limit.

Understand working with previous conditions and restrictions, as set.  The
direction of my comments were that NOW knowing what doesn't work, and now
knowing what we can now NOT afford to do, and now knowing that the existing
conditions are somewhat unwieldy (being polite), it's time to reset the
operating conditions, without raping the pensions of the pilots<G>.

> Subtract the known costs (insurance, communications, etc.)

..........Finding the "known costs" was an extremely difficult job.
Try to find industrial rental equipment in an up-scale residential
neighborhood.

Understand.  

A.	Go to a non-up scale neighborhood.
B.	All residential neighborhoods have nearby industrial neighborhoods
where the sleepy heads work<G>.  Me included.
C.	Rental companies will fax rental prices to anyone who asks.  And
tell the person how long the quotes are good for.  Last year I spent right
at 150k of the company's money.  Quotes are easy<G>.

Still, gross estimates may be made based upon previous payments for
services/materials.  Then fine tune with real informaion from the locals.
Establish, at minimum, working limits beyond which permission would be
obtained to exceed.  I believe that a person should be assigned a job, given
the tools to do it, and then be watched lightly.  If a good class of worker
is employed, a long cable with plenty of slack may be enjoyed once skills in
duties have been proven.  The bottom line is to find out what may be known
and then worry about what is left<G>.

> Then do the best that may be done with the rest of the money.  But let
> people know up front what amenities will be available so that they won't >
be surprised.

.......... Every aspect of an ABANA Conference is well advertised,
well in advance. There should be no surprises for anyone.

Understand.  In this matter, I was not slinging stones at any previous ABANA
conference.  I was speaking in general terms of future events which may have
limited funds and volunteers.  This was not a stone flung at you and yours.
The point I was attempting to make was that if a certain level of conference
and amenities have been proffered in the past, then there is a general
expectation within the public for them to be available at the next event;
unless they are told otherwise.

> It's called a budget.

..........Come on, we have more budget details than you can imagine.

Ask any one in the poor house:
A.	Having a budget is not the same thing as sticking to it.
B.	If the budget expenditures exceed the intake, it's not a budget.

	Now, truthfully, it is now known that not as many people attended as
were expected.  This is unfortunate for all.  However, this is apparently
not the first time that this has occurred.  Hopes are what starving artists
live on. They must only worry about their room and board, and can go begging
without having a large adverse effect upon the greater masses.
	Responsible persons in positions of power must watch out for the
axeman if things go awry.  For their decisions affect their lives, and the
lives of all workers under their care.  We all take "risks," and every now
and then a risk fails.  I suspect that we both watch behind ourselves every
day<G>.  When I do something that doesn't work, either I get burned, or the
cat slaps me and lets me know that if I do that again I will receive a claw.
It's cause and effect.  We learn and hopefully change before we go broke<G>.
You need more kitty litter Puck?  Sorry boy, we only have real dirt from out
side.  NO NO NO, not on the stereo!!  If I don't make a correction to my
inelegant choices, someone with more power (or possibly cohones) will put me
in my place<G>.

> Only the government can spend more than the budget and continue to
operate.
>
> This isn't a $500.00 a plate charity dinner where the big whigs go and sip
> wine.  This is a place where blacksmiths go to learn how to earn a better
> living and to show off what they have already accomplished.

..........You must be talking about Seattle. I didn't have anything to
do with that.

Ha.  Well, I was speaking in general and not flinging stones at any
particular conference.  That's the problem with emails, a lot of body
language is lost, and things are taken out of context sometimes.  I meant no
offence with that (nor any portion of this email).
	Just, when I can buy a working car or motorcycle (though admittedly
a bad one) for what it will cost me to get into the gate (not including
travel and hotel), I have a hard time selling the idea to the wife and
kitties.

> Tertiary comments...
> To have more than 4 forge stations set up is a great thing, it gives
> options.  But since a body can watch only one forge station at a time, the
> return for the individual's investment is limited.

..........You can't put 500 - 1000 people around one or two
demonstrators. First most couldn't see or hear what was going on and
second the Fire Marshall doesn't want more than  150 people in a tent
at a time. As a matter of fact, the insurance won't let us have open
fires in tents, so they have to be called canopies.

	This I understand.  But the direction of my comment was that if the
gate fee is paying for 10 demonstrators all hammering at the same time, and
I can see only one demonstrator, then I am paying for 10 and seeing 1, and
am getting only 10% of my event fee returned to me.  That is distinctly
adverse economy in any eye.
	Now, having 2-3 forge stations and watching one, while paying an
overhead of 100% or 200% is easier to digest.
	And on the subject of tents vs canopies.  If there is an accident,
and a subsequent law suit, and the lawyers for the insurance company read
this email; then there is possible cause for dismissal of coverage, due to
mis-leading statements.  I am certain that your way of saying this was
inadvertent and totally mis-understood by me, and I will ignore the error in
the future.

> The SERC has on ground camping for those who wish to use it.  And there
are
> motels nearby for those who don't wish to camp.  There are bleachers, but
> anyone who wishes brings a fold up chair.

..........New Paltz wouldn't allow camping on campus and there are
fewer than 100 hotel rooms in the area. In Richmond (2004) fewer than
10 people out of nearly 1000 camped.
dave m
 
	One of the hazards of using a campus.  Though, admittedly there are
benefits.  On the other hand, I am not surprised at the low camp rate.
Anyone who can afford a high ticket event would certainly prefer a hotel for
comfort.
	I'm not throwing stones at the Winebago folks.  Anyone that can
afford one, and can afford to attend events like this in one, are welcome in
my mind.  But they aren't me, and I wonder if they also aren't (in many
instances) the masses of blacksmiths with coal blackened faces and burns on
their arms.  When I go to motorcycle swap meets, I point and tell my
children "These aren't my people.  These people are what my people have
become<G>."

Good responses from you as well.  Civility will get things done.  And you
are most gracious.

All the Best