[TheForge] Power hammer Vs air hammer

Tue May 23 19:44:59 EDT 2006

This was touched upon recently on forgemagic.com- and the two gurus of 
this subject, Grant, who designed the Kickass, and John Larson, who 
builds the Iron Kiss, discussed it.
Of course, I cant remember what they said.
But if you ask over there, chances are both of them will chime in.
As I recall, you need a secondary system between the treadle and the 
actual air valve to acomplish this.
I also have never met anyone who actually used the clamping ability of 
air hammers, even if they had it.
What do you plan to do with it, and is it really worth the additional 
plumbing headaches?

ries

On May 23, 2006, at 2:39 PM, Demon Buddha wrote:

> I have a question.
>
> For several years I've been considering the value of multiple valving 
> schemes for air hammers where one can switch between control layouts 
> for differingwork requirements.  One scheme would be the standard fomr 
> found on most hammers such as Nazels where the frequency and force of 
> the blows are regulated by the depth of depression of a treadle or 
> control handle. The other scheme is similar to that of the Kickass 
> hammers where depression causes clamping.  My idea, and hence my 
> question, relates to the latter, where the degree of depression of the 
> treadle determines ram height.  What I mean is that the ram position 
> would track treadle position precisely.  E.g., if I depress the 
> treadle half way, the ram would descend half way down its stroke.  If 
> I depress the treadle slowly, the ram moves slowly.  If I depress it 
> rapidly, the ram follows suit.  The speed and distance of the treadle 
> determines the speed and distance of the ram.  Does this make sense?  
> Thew question, then, is whether valving for such a scheme is feasible. 
>  I know it is with hydraulics.  For example, the depth adjustment for 
> plows on tractors are usually set by positioning a lever.  Can this be 
> implemented using air?
>
> I'd like to experiment with this sort of setup to see how well it 
> works in terms of allowing the smith to exercise very precisely 
> controlled blows, especially in situations where top tooling is being 
> used.  I've seen the Kickass in action but I do not recall if it 
> functions in this manner.
>
> Regards,
>
> 	-andy
>
> Grover Richardson wrote:
>> Yes.  A cheap switch would also be the brake light switch for a 1939 
>> Buick.
>> It sees pressure when you push on the brake pedal.
>> Hmm.  An addition would be to have a regular light to also shine on 
>> the
>> hammering area.  That way the area of danger would be illuminated as 
>> an
>> additional notice, and as an aid to hammering.
>> Part numbers like this are useful for anyone who wants to copy the 
>> design.
>> Thanks!!
>> All the best.
>>> *>-----Original Message-----
>>> *>From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net 
>>> *>[mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of dave mudge
>>> *>Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 11:23 PM
>>> *>To: Sponsored by ABANA
>>> *>Subject: RE: [TheForge] Power hammer Vs air hammer
>>> *>
>>> *>
>>> *>Grover, you are correct about the potential danger of air 
>>> *>hammers. Just like a motorized mechanical hammer with the *>on/off 
>>> switch mounted near by your air hammer should have a *>ball valve 
>>> (on/off switch) located right on the hammer. I *>have a red light 
>>> that goes on when the hammer is energized *>and off when there is no 
>>> pressure. *>http://www.magichammer.freeservers.com/page31.html will 
>>> show *>you a picture of the light. You can find a light here: 
>>> *>http://tinyurl.com/pvjl6
>>> *>(www.teksupply.com)
>>> *>search for item number LK1505 The air pressure / electric *>switch 
>>> that I used is a homemade device (engineered by Byrne *>Lobdell) 
>>> from an old air conditioner window unit. I think *>that Granger has 
>>> a similar switch. dave m
>>> *>
>>> *>-----Original Message-----
>>> *>From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net 
>>> *>[mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net]On Behalf Of Grover 
>>> *>Richardson
>>> *>Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 9:25 AM
>>> *>To: 'Sponsored by ABANA'
>>> *>Subject: RE: [TheForge] Power hammer Vs air hammer
>>> *>
>>> *>
>>> *>	Thing to remember is that a power hammer, when it is *>running, 
>>> is obvious and dangerous to the casual observer.
>>> *>
>>> *>	An air hammer, when running, is a rat trap waiting to *>be 
>>> tripped. At a meeting last Saturday, I announced the *>danger of an 
>>> air hammer.  In that it is armed and ready to *>go, and the air 
>>> compressor is 2 buildings away.  There is no *>obvious sign that an 
>>> air hammer is ready to work, other than *>the fact that the air 
>>> lever is moved 90 degrees, or the wood *>block is underneath the 
>>> foot leaver.  Non-blacksmiths would *>miss such signs.
>>> *>
>>> *>	Not long after, someone (I leave the name out because I *>almost 
>>> did the same thing years ago) stepped on the *>operating lever.  It 
>>> moved. Immediately the wood block was *>re-placed underneath the 
>>> foot leaver.
>>> *>
>>> *>	Air hammers are good, but can be a silent killer when *>visitors 
>>> are in the shop.
>>> *>
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Ries Niemi
Industrial Artist

http://www.RiesNiemi.com