[TheForge] Chip Bed Forge

Thu Feb 23 21:21:56 EST 2006

Have you thought about building the jewelers' furnace and just making a 
second top for it so as to use it as a chip forge? You could even make it 
into next year's equipment photo section of Gas Burners.
Mike P.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rich Maynard" <rich at maynard.org.uk>
To: "'Sponsored by ABANA'" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 2:37 PM
Subject: RE: [TheForge] Chip Bed Forge


> The only problem with the natural gas ceramic chip forge is that it 
> doesn't
> belong to me! I'll be alright as long as I work at the same school, 
> though.
>
> Rich M.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
>> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Mike Porter
>> Sent: 23 February 2006 22:27
>> To: Sponsored by ABANA
>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Chip Bed Forge
>>
>>
>> Rich,
>> Your comments were exactly what we need to hear. I will only
>> comment on the
>> question you asked.
>> Yes, the propane burner would work fine in a ceramic chip
>> forge. However you
>> would need to build a grate. I also think that if your
>> present forge is
>> burning natural gas at a nice low price, you would lose more
>> than you gain.
>> Personally, I would be loath to give up the ability to run
>> both fuels, if it
>> were me.
>> Mike P.
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Rich Maynard" <rich at maynard.org.uk>
>> To: "'Sponsored by ABANA'" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 11:26 AM
>> Subject: RE: [TheForge] Chip Bed Forge
>>
>>
>> OK. What do you want to know?!?
>>
>> The HME forge is natural gas, but I believe propane verions
>> are available. By the way, propane is readily available here
>> in the UK, but people seem to like butane too. My Dad uses
>> propane as a fuel on his boat because he uses it in the
>> winter and butane doesn't work too well at low temps. We get
>> both of these gases in returnable cylinders for which an
>> initial deposit is payable, but the cylinder remains the
>> property of the gas company, thus making it a bit of a
>> non-starter as a forge shell!
>>
>> The tube forge heats up quicker because it has less thermal
>> mass, I suppose.
>>
>> The chip forge is blown, and quite noisy; there seems to be a
>> high pitched sound that is caused by the air being forced
>> through the small gaps between the chips. After a long
>> session my ears ring a bit, but I can't bring myself to wear
>> hearing protection because of the sweat factor. Suppose I
>> could use plugs...
>>
>> I actually quite like the chip forge, but it's not as
>> flexible as a coke one because you can't really change the
>> fire size by raking it out and turning up the air. In fact,
>> the air supply is fixed and the gas has a valve to vary the
>> flow rate. You can, of course, put a wider range of things in
>> it and build the chips over whatever you are trying to heat,
>> like a coke forge.
>>
>> The ceramic chip forge gets hot enough to burn steel, but
>> I've never forge welded with it.
>>
>> Perhaps I should run them both side by side and do some
>> comparative tests?
>>
>> Do you think my 3/4" burner could run a ceramic chip forge
>> off a propane cylinder?
>>
>> Any specific questions, I'll do my best to answer.
>>
>> Rich.
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
>> > [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Mike Porter
>> > Sent: 23 February 2006 04:15
>> > To: Sponsored by ABANA
>> > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Chip Bed Forge
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks; that was a helpful description. I assume the forge
>> is running
>> > on natural gas too. It is all excellent. I'm just a greedy guy,
>> > and always want
>> > more from a tool. However, there is a lot to be said for the
>> > stuff that's
>> > already out there on the used tool market--in England. If we
>> > Yanks had an
>> > inexpensive way to ship it here, there wouldn't be any left
>> > for you guys
>> > :-)
>> >
>> > You know that my own interest is pretty off center from
>> what most here
>> > want to do with them. Since you have built your own portable tube
>> > forge, and also
>> > use a chip forge, I can't think of anyone better placed to
>> > answer practical
>> > questions about the differences. How about a little more
>> > writing from you on
>> > this subject?
>> > Mike P.
>> > ----- Original Message ----- 
>> > From: "Rich Maynard" <rich at maynard.org.uk>
>> > To: "'Sponsored by ABANA'" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 4:42 PM
>> > Subject: RE: [TheForge] Chip Bed Forge
>> >
>> >
>> > The HME ceramic chip forge that I have is much simpler than that.
>> > Combustion seems to happen in and around the chips, and
>> when first lit
>> > there is a blue flame visible above the chips.
>> >
>> > Once it's going, however, and the chips are glowing
>> orange/white there
>> > is no flame left at all; the gas seems to burn completely
>> within the
>> > very hot chips.
>> >
>> > Rich
>> >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
>> > > [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Mike Porter
>> > > Sent: 22 February 2006 18:14
>> > > To: Sponsored by ABANA
>> > > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Chip Bed Forge
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Chris K,
>> > > You are not understanding that the forge has a separate
>> > fire box below
>> > > the ceramic media, with a separating layer of cut kiln shelves
>> > > turned on edge, and acting as a support grate. The grate
>> completely
>> > > separates the flame area
>> > > from the ceramic media--giving as much space as you need for
>> > > the flame to
>> > > filter through the media, and for buoyancy to more than
>> > overcome back
>> > > pressure. It also allows the "flame box" to be dual
>> walled, with a
>> > > row of holes in the inner walls above the ceramic grate, and two
>> > > outer holes kept
>> > > low and placed on either side of the burner; outer holes to
>> > > be closed with
>> > > movable chokes until the fire box heats up. Thus, instead of
>> > > throwing away
>> > > excess energy, while complicating the job of insulating the
>> > > forge, most of
>> > > it is recycled. Also, the superheated air does not impact the
>> > > burner, as
>> > > schemes for mixing heated air in the burner always do.
>> > > Instead, the burner
>> > > is actually cooled somewhat by incoming air.
>> > >
>> > > Now you also know that it can be called a recuperative
>> > forge, and why
>> > > any burner will likely work as well as any other burner in it
>> > > (secondary flames becoming a non-issue in this design). So, do my
>> > > statements about sometimes
>> > > removing the media and using the "forge" in various other
>> > > configurations
>> > > make more sense? I also recommend a lower layer of 1 1/2"
>> > > refractory balls
>> > > for thermal loading and an upper layer of semi-hollow
>> clay balls for
>> > > insulation and ease of parts movement. Construction details
>> > > like installing
>> > > burner collars, and how to handle perlite insulation or
>> > > insulating bricks
>> > > are already covered pretty thoroughly in Gas Burners, in the
>> > > forge cart
>> > > chapter. All you would do is put side walls on the cart bed,
>> > > build a dual
>> > > wall chamber with a top grate, and move the burner position
>> > > from bottom to
>> > > end. For that matter, the burner doesn't have to be moved, it
>> > > would just be
>> > > a more even heat that way. So, people who have already built
>> > > the forge cart
>> > > don't have very much left to do.
>> > >
>> > > For those who haven't built the cart already, I'd recommend
>> > building
>> > > the chip forge as a separate heating unit that can be used
>> > with other
>> > > appliances, like kilns for instance (a kiln on a cart could start
>> > > getting pretty tall :)
>> > >
>> > > Mike P.
>> > >
>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > From: "Chris Kilpatrick" <crimsonkil at lycos.com>
>> > > To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 8:01 AM
>> > > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Chip Bed Forge
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Normally aspirated with the clay media interfering with
>> the flame?
>> > > Maybe I am not understanding how this works, but I
>> imagine a flame
>> > > coming up through the chips which offer back pressure and make a
>> > > coned flame
>> > impossible.
>> > >
>> > > What am I not understanding?
>> > >
>> > > Chris K
>> > >
>> > > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > > From: "Mike Porter" <michael.a.porter at comcast.net>
>> > > > To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>> > > > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Chip Bed Forge
>> > > > Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 18:45:26 -0800
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Chris K,
>> > > > It can run fan blown or naturally aspirated. Either way,
>> > it doesn't
>> > > > make smoke. Mike P.
>> > > >
>> > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Kilpatrick"
>> > > > <crimsonkil at lycos.com>
>> > > > To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>> > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 3:33 PM
>> > > > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Chip Bed Forge
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Mike,
>> > > >      I am assuming forced air on these, yes?
>> > > >
>> > > > -Chris K.
>> > > >
>> > > > p.s.:  How does this differ from my forge that glows and
>> > > heats through
>> > > > convection, conduction and radiation?
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > -- _______________________________________________
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>
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