[TheForge] Chip Bed Forge

Rich Maynard rich at maynard.org.uk
Thu Feb 23 17:37:30 EST 2006 

The only problem with the natural gas ceramic chip forge is that it doesn't
belong to me! I'll be alright as long as I work at the same school, though.

Rich M.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net 
> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Mike Porter
> Sent: 23 February 2006 22:27
> To: Sponsored by ABANA
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Chip Bed Forge
> 
> 
> Rich,
> Your comments were exactly what we need to hear. I will only 
> comment on the 
> question you asked.
> Yes, the propane burner would work fine in a ceramic chip 
> forge. However you 
> would need to build a grate. I also think that if your 
> present forge is 
> burning natural gas at a nice low price, you would lose more 
> than you gain. 
> Personally, I would be loath to give up the ability to run 
> both fuels, if it 
> were me.
> Mike P.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Rich Maynard" <rich at maynard.org.uk>
> To: "'Sponsored by ABANA'" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 11:26 AM
> Subject: RE: [TheForge] Chip Bed Forge
> 
> 
> OK. What do you want to know?!?
> 
> The HME forge is natural gas, but I believe propane verions 
> are available. By the way, propane is readily available here 
> in the UK, but people seem to like butane too. My Dad uses 
> propane as a fuel on his boat because he uses it in the 
> winter and butane doesn't work too well at low temps. We get 
> both of these gases in returnable cylinders for which an 
> initial deposit is payable, but the cylinder remains the 
> property of the gas company, thus making it a bit of a 
> non-starter as a forge shell!
> 
> The tube forge heats up quicker because it has less thermal 
> mass, I suppose.
> 
> The chip forge is blown, and quite noisy; there seems to be a 
> high pitched sound that is caused by the air being forced 
> through the small gaps between the chips. After a long 
> session my ears ring a bit, but I can't bring myself to wear 
> hearing protection because of the sweat factor. Suppose I 
> could use plugs...
> 
> I actually quite like the chip forge, but it's not as 
> flexible as a coke one because you can't really change the 
> fire size by raking it out and turning up the air. In fact, 
> the air supply is fixed and the gas has a valve to vary the 
> flow rate. You can, of course, put a wider range of things in 
> it and build the chips over whatever you are trying to heat, 
> like a coke forge.
> 
> The ceramic chip forge gets hot enough to burn steel, but 
> I've never forge welded with it.
> 
> Perhaps I should run them both side by side and do some 
> comparative tests?
> 
> Do you think my 3/4" burner could run a ceramic chip forge 
> off a propane cylinder?
> 
> Any specific questions, I'll do my best to answer.
> 
> Rich.
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net 
> > [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Mike Porter
> > Sent: 23 February 2006 04:15
> > To: Sponsored by ABANA
> > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Chip Bed Forge
> >
> >
> > Thanks; that was a helpful description. I assume the forge 
> is running 
> > on natural gas too. It is all excellent. I'm just a greedy guy,
> > and always want
> > more from a tool. However, there is a lot to be said for the
> > stuff that's
> > already out there on the used tool market--in England. If we
> > Yanks had an
> > inexpensive way to ship it here, there wouldn't be any left
> > for you guys
> > :-)
> >
> > You know that my own interest is pretty off center from 
> what most here 
> > want to do with them. Since you have built your own portable tube
> > forge, and also
> > use a chip forge, I can't think of anyone better placed to
> > answer practical
> > questions about the differences. How about a little more
> > writing from you on
> > this subject?
> > Mike P.
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Rich Maynard" <rich at maynard.org.uk>
> > To: "'Sponsored by ABANA'" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 4:42 PM
> > Subject: RE: [TheForge] Chip Bed Forge
> >
> >
> > The HME ceramic chip forge that I have is much simpler than that. 
> > Combustion seems to happen in and around the chips, and 
> when first lit 
> > there is a blue flame visible above the chips.
> >
> > Once it's going, however, and the chips are glowing 
> orange/white there 
> > is no flame left at all; the gas seems to burn completely 
> within the 
> > very hot chips.
> >
> > Rich
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net 
> > > [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Mike Porter
> > > Sent: 22 February 2006 18:14
> > > To: Sponsored by ABANA
> > > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Chip Bed Forge
> > >
> > >
> > > Chris K,
> > > You are not understanding that the forge has a separate
> > fire box below
> > > the ceramic media, with a separating layer of cut kiln shelves 
> > > turned on edge, and acting as a support grate. The grate 
> completely 
> > > separates the flame area
> > > from the ceramic media--giving as much space as you need for
> > > the flame to
> > > filter through the media, and for buoyancy to more than
> > overcome back
> > > pressure. It also allows the "flame box" to be dual 
> walled, with a 
> > > row of holes in the inner walls above the ceramic grate, and two
> > > outer holes kept
> > > low and placed on either side of the burner; outer holes to
> > > be closed with
> > > movable chokes until the fire box heats up. Thus, instead of
> > > throwing away
> > > excess energy, while complicating the job of insulating the
> > > forge, most of
> > > it is recycled. Also, the superheated air does not impact the
> > > burner, as
> > > schemes for mixing heated air in the burner always do.
> > > Instead, the burner
> > > is actually cooled somewhat by incoming air.
> > >
> > > Now you also know that it can be called a recuperative
> > forge, and why
> > > any burner will likely work as well as any other burner in it 
> > > (secondary flames becoming a non-issue in this design). So, do my 
> > > statements about sometimes
> > > removing the media and using the "forge" in various other
> > > configurations
> > > make more sense? I also recommend a lower layer of 1 1/2"
> > > refractory balls
> > > for thermal loading and an upper layer of semi-hollow 
> clay balls for
> > > insulation and ease of parts movement. Construction details
> > > like installing
> > > burner collars, and how to handle perlite insulation or
> > > insulating bricks
> > > are already covered pretty thoroughly in Gas Burners, in the
> > > forge cart
> > > chapter. All you would do is put side walls on the cart bed,
> > > build a dual
> > > wall chamber with a top grate, and move the burner position
> > > from bottom to
> > > end. For that matter, the burner doesn't have to be moved, it
> > > would just be
> > > a more even heat that way. So, people who have already built
> > > the forge cart
> > > don't have very much left to do.
> > >
> > > For those who haven't built the cart already, I'd recommend
> > building
> > > the chip forge as a separate heating unit that can be used
> > with other
> > > appliances, like kilns for instance (a kiln on a cart could start 
> > > getting pretty tall :)
> > >
> > > Mike P.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Chris Kilpatrick" <crimsonkil at lycos.com>
> > > To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 8:01 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Chip Bed Forge
> > >
> > >
> > > Normally aspirated with the clay media interfering with 
> the flame? 
> > > Maybe I am not understanding how this works, but I 
> imagine a flame 
> > > coming up through the chips which offer back pressure and make a 
> > > coned flame
> > impossible.
> > >
> > > What am I not understanding?
> > >
> > > Chris K
> > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Mike Porter" <michael.a.porter at comcast.net>
> > > > To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> > > > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Chip Bed Forge
> > > > Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 18:45:26 -0800
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Chris K,
> > > > It can run fan blown or naturally aspirated. Either way,
> > it doesn't
> > > > make smoke. Mike P.
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Kilpatrick" 
> > > > <crimsonkil at lycos.com>
> > > > To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 3:33 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Chip Bed Forge
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Mike,
> > > >      I am assuming forced air on these, yes?
> > > >
> > > > -Chris K.
> > > >
> > > > p.s.:  How does this differ from my forge that glows and
> > > heats through
> > > > convection, conduction and radiation?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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