[TheForge] Chip Bed Forge

Mike Porter michael.a.porter at comcast.net
Thu Feb 23 13:50:32 EST 2006 

Dan,
An ordinary ceramic chip forge can use just about anything that doesn't have 
a glass finish on it: Broken furnace brick; pottery shards,
; clay balls; whatever.

If you're going for performance, a recuperative ceramic chip forge well need 
balls of a size larger than the grill openings and at least the lower half 
of the balls will need to consist of high temperature refractory. Best case 
would be 4000 degree plastic refractory from AP green, but Kastolite 3000 
would do for most people. I will use the latter. Once again, how you build 
and what you use for chips depends on what you want to accomplish. Since I 
always want everything from a piece of equipment, I will build for that 
result.

However, someone who just wants to heat steel up and pound it into shapes at 
a fair, would probably be as well off building something more like an 
oversize crucible, heated by a burner from below and filled with shards.

Anyone contemplating building a chip forge can quickly assemble a test 
device out of a flower pot heated from below with a burner and begin running 
experiments. Using a hole saw (worn out or carbide encrusted) to enlarge the 
bottom hole and then placing some kiln furniture in the bottom to create a 
baffle will cut down on the number of needed experiments a lot :)

Be careful not to get to fancy with your construction methods or you may 
find yourself in possession of a ceramic chip forge, when all you wanted to 
do was fool around a little. For instance, whatever you do, don't even dream 
of using bubble alumina refractory and casting a shape around the outside of 
the flower pot in something more substantial than red clay. If you were to 
do anything like that, it would work so well that you would be almost 
obligated to suspend the "pot" in an angle iron cage, with concrete board 
walls, and then fill up the box with perlite. Why then you'd be trapped with 
a portable, highly efficient ceramic chip forge, and no one would ever let 
you live it down (remember the Peter Principle--you can never go back)
Mike P.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dan Brewer" <danqualman at gmail.com>
To: "'Sponsored by ABANA'" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 9:44 PM
Subject: RE: [TheForge] Chip Bed Forge


> So where do I find material to make these bass from?
> Dan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Mike Porter
> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 8:56 PM
> To: Sponsored by ABANA
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Chip Bed Forge
>
> You're just working me too hard Dan,
> You can expect me to goof off that much more at your next casting party :)
>
> At the temps I'm talking about? Temperature with a ceramic chip forge is
> only a question of how far up you want to run the gas. I plan to let my
> forge loaf along with the top layer under a thousand degrees for the most
> part. This is because I want to use it for gas welding and brazing without
> added oxygen. I suppose most others would run over two thousand, but that 
> is
>
> still no problem for ceramics. The only parts of the forge that will take 
> a
> big hit from heat will be the grill and the chips; both are easily 
> replaced.
>
> Mullite doesn't take higher temperatures than high alumina clay, or high
> temperature refractory. What mullite is noted for is its resistance to 
> down
> shock. No doubt there will be a pretty lively controversy next year over
> mullite's toughness versus high alumina's strength at elevated 
> temperatures
> for grill parts. Which will win out? Haven't a clue. Maybe it will become
> another perennial argument like fan-blow versus naturally aspirated 
> burners.
>
> Always happy to introduce a new controversy (long as I don't get sucked 
> into
>
> it >:-)
>
> The fire box, will be actively air cooled  by incoming air, that is sucked
> in by the escape of super heated air that is being fed into the chip area
> via the power of buoyancy. Secondary flames from the Heinz 57 different
> burner designs will need air from somewhere, and pulling it through the
> double walls of the fire box is much better all the way around than 
> pulling
> cold air down from the ambient air over the chip pile.
>
> Shape and size will be up to the builders, and will depend on what they 
> want
>
> to do with their forges. First and final heats on scroll stock would
> probably do best in a round or hexagonal model. Someone determined to 
> pound
> out there own armor and swords would want a rectangular shape. Mine will 
> be
> rectangular, with one or two burners mounted through an end plate. Not 
> that
> I'd do armor; working this hard is for young earnest people. I'd rather 
> play
>
> and scheme.
> Mike P.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dan Brewer" <danqualman at gmail.com>
> To: "'Sponsored by ABANA'" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 8:01 PM
> Subject: RE: [TheForge] Chip Bed Forge
>
>
>> So what type of media do you suggest for the ceramic media.  At the temps
>> you are talking about most ceramics melt.  I guess balls made of mulite
>> would work.  Are you thinking that the fire box be rounded or rectangular
>> in
>> shape?
>> Dan
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
>> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Mike Porter
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 10:14 AM
>> To: Sponsored by ABANA
>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Chip Bed Forge
>>
>> Chris K,
>> You are not understanding that the forge has a separate fire box below 
>> the
>> ceramic media, with a separating layer of cut kiln shelves turned on 
>> edge,
>> and acting as a support grate. The grate completely separates the flame
>> area
>>
>> from the ceramic media--giving as much space as you need for the flame to
>> filter through the media, and for buoyancy to more than overcome back
>> pressure. It also allows the "flame box" to be dual walled, with a row of
>> holes in the inner walls above the ceramic grate, and two outer holes 
>> kept
>> low and placed on either side of the burner; outer holes to be closed 
>> with
>> movable chokes until the fire box heats up. Thus, instead of throwing 
>> away
>> excess energy, while complicating the job of insulating the forge, most 
>> of
>> it is recycled. Also, the superheated air does not impact the burner, as
>> schemes for mixing heated air in the burner always do. Instead, the 
>> burner
>> is actually cooled somewhat by incoming air.
>>
>> Now you also know that it can be called a recuperative forge, and why any
>> burner will likely work as well as any other burner in it (secondary
>> flames
>> becoming a non-issue in this design). So, do my statements about 
>> sometimes
>> removing the media and using the "forge" in various other configurations
>> make more sense? I also recommend a lower layer of 1 1/2" refractory 
>> balls
>> for thermal loading and an upper layer of semi-hollow clay balls for
>> insulation and ease of parts movement. Construction details like
>> installing
>> burner collars, and how to handle perlite insulation or insulating bricks
>> are already covered pretty thoroughly in Gas Burners, in the forge cart
>> chapter. All you would do is put side walls on the cart bed, build a dual
>> wall chamber with a top grate, and move the burner position from bottom 
>> to
>> end. For that matter, the burner doesn't have to be moved, it would just
>> be
>> a more even heat that way. So, people who have already built the forge
>> cart
>> don't have very much left to do.
>>
>> For those who haven't built the cart already, I'd recommend building the
>> chip forge as a separate heating unit that can be used with other
>> appliances, like kilns for instance (a kiln on a cart could start getting
>> pretty tall :)
>>
>> Mike P.
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Chris Kilpatrick" <crimsonkil at lycos.com>
>> To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 8:01 AM
>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Chip Bed Forge
>>
>>
>> Normally aspirated with the clay media interfering with the flame?  Maybe
>> I
>> am not understanding how this works, but I imagine a flame coming up
>> through
>>
>> the chips which offer back pressure and make a coned flame impossible.
>>
>> What am I not understanding?
>>
>> Chris K
>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Mike Porter" <michael.a.porter at comcast.net>
>>> To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Chip Bed Forge
>>> Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 18:45:26 -0800
>>>
>>>
>>> Chris K,
>>> It can run fan blown or naturally aspirated. Either way, it doesn't
>>> make smoke.
>>> Mike P.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Kilpatrick"
>>> <crimsonkil at lycos.com>
>>> To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 3:33 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Chip Bed Forge
>>>
>>>
>>> Mike,
>>>      I am assuming forced air on these, yes?
>>>
>>> -Chris K.
>>>
>>> p.s.:  How does this differ from my forge that glows and heats
>>> through convection, conduction and radiation?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Search for businesses by name, location, or phone number.  -Lycos Yellow
>>> Pages
>>>
>>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> It is I who formed the blacksmith,
>> who fans the flame into a fire and
>> fashions a weapon fit for it's work.
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Search for businesses by name, location, or phone number.  -Lycos Yellow
>> Pages
>>
>>
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>> ?SRC=lycos10
>>
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>
>
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>
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