[TheForge] Chip Bed Forge

Dan Brewer danqualman at gmail.com
Thu Feb 23 00:44:30 EST 2006 

So where do I find material to make these bass from?
Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
[mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Mike Porter
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 8:56 PM
To: Sponsored by ABANA
Subject: Re: [TheForge] Chip Bed Forge

You're just working me too hard Dan,
You can expect me to goof off that much more at your next casting party :)

At the temps I'm talking about? Temperature with a ceramic chip forge is 
only a question of how far up you want to run the gas. I plan to let my 
forge loaf along with the top layer under a thousand degrees for the most 
part. This is because I want to use it for gas welding and brazing without 
added oxygen. I suppose most others would run over two thousand, but that is

still no problem for ceramics. The only parts of the forge that will take a 
big hit from heat will be the grill and the chips; both are easily replaced.

Mullite doesn't take higher temperatures than high alumina clay, or high 
temperature refractory. What mullite is noted for is its resistance to down 
shock. No doubt there will be a pretty lively controversy next year over 
mullite's toughness versus high alumina's strength at elevated temperatures 
for grill parts. Which will win out? Haven't a clue. Maybe it will become 
another perennial argument like fan-blow versus naturally aspirated burners.

Always happy to introduce a new controversy (long as I don't get sucked into

it >:-)

The fire box, will be actively air cooled  by incoming air, that is sucked 
in by the escape of super heated air that is being fed into the chip area 
via the power of buoyancy. Secondary flames from the Heinz 57 different 
burner designs will need air from somewhere, and pulling it through the 
double walls of the fire box is much better all the way around than pulling 
cold air down from the ambient air over the chip pile.

Shape and size will be up to the builders, and will depend on what they want

to do with their forges. First and final heats on scroll stock would 
probably do best in a round or hexagonal model. Someone determined to pound 
out there own armor and swords would want a rectangular shape. Mine will be 
rectangular, with one or two burners mounted through an end plate. Not that 
I'd do armor; working this hard is for young earnest people. I'd rather play

and scheme.
Mike P.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dan Brewer" <danqualman at gmail.com>
To: "'Sponsored by ABANA'" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 8:01 PM
Subject: RE: [TheForge] Chip Bed Forge


> So what type of media do you suggest for the ceramic media.  At the temps
> you are talking about most ceramics melt.  I guess balls made of mulite
> would work.  Are you thinking that the fire box be rounded or rectangular 
> in
> shape?
> Dan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Mike Porter
> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 10:14 AM
> To: Sponsored by ABANA
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Chip Bed Forge
>
> Chris K,
> You are not understanding that the forge has a separate fire box below the
> ceramic media, with a separating layer of cut kiln shelves turned on edge,
> and acting as a support grate. The grate completely separates the flame 
> area
>
> from the ceramic media--giving as much space as you need for the flame to
> filter through the media, and for buoyancy to more than overcome back
> pressure. It also allows the "flame box" to be dual walled, with a row of
> holes in the inner walls above the ceramic grate, and two outer holes kept
> low and placed on either side of the burner; outer holes to be closed with
> movable chokes until the fire box heats up. Thus, instead of throwing away
> excess energy, while complicating the job of insulating the forge, most of
> it is recycled. Also, the superheated air does not impact the burner, as
> schemes for mixing heated air in the burner always do. Instead, the burner
> is actually cooled somewhat by incoming air.
>
> Now you also know that it can be called a recuperative forge, and why any
> burner will likely work as well as any other burner in it (secondary 
> flames
> becoming a non-issue in this design). So, do my statements about sometimes
> removing the media and using the "forge" in various other configurations
> make more sense? I also recommend a lower layer of 1 1/2" refractory balls
> for thermal loading and an upper layer of semi-hollow clay balls for
> insulation and ease of parts movement. Construction details like 
> installing
> burner collars, and how to handle perlite insulation or insulating bricks
> are already covered pretty thoroughly in Gas Burners, in the forge cart
> chapter. All you would do is put side walls on the cart bed, build a dual
> wall chamber with a top grate, and move the burner position from bottom to
> end. For that matter, the burner doesn't have to be moved, it would just 
> be
> a more even heat that way. So, people who have already built the forge 
> cart
> don't have very much left to do.
>
> For those who haven't built the cart already, I'd recommend building the
> chip forge as a separate heating unit that can be used with other
> appliances, like kilns for instance (a kiln on a cart could start getting
> pretty tall :)
>
> Mike P.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Chris Kilpatrick" <crimsonkil at lycos.com>
> To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 8:01 AM
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Chip Bed Forge
>
>
> Normally aspirated with the clay media interfering with the flame?  Maybe 
> I
> am not understanding how this works, but I imagine a flame coming up 
> through
>
> the chips which offer back pressure and make a coned flame impossible.
>
> What am I not understanding?
>
> Chris K
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mike Porter" <michael.a.porter at comcast.net>
>> To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Chip Bed Forge
>> Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 18:45:26 -0800
>>
>>
>> Chris K,
>> It can run fan blown or naturally aspirated. Either way, it doesn't
>> make smoke.
>> Mike P.
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Kilpatrick"
>> <crimsonkil at lycos.com>
>> To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 3:33 PM
>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Chip Bed Forge
>>
>>
>> Mike,
>>      I am assuming forced air on these, yes?
>>
>> -Chris K.
>>
>> p.s.:  How does this differ from my forge that glows and heats
>> through convection, conduction and radiation?
>>
>>
>>
>> -- _______________________________________________
>>
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>
>
>
> It is I who formed the blacksmith,
> who fans the flame into a fire and
> fashions a weapon fit for it's work.
>
>
> -- 
> _______________________________________________
>
> Search for businesses by name, location, or phone number.  -Lycos Yellow
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