[TheForge] RE: Tool Steel

Tue Dec 26 15:21:57 EST 2006

Dave,

These days I go around and scrounge what I can. With
the complexity of the process to make steel, the
falling a part of the steel production in the states.
I have to look for the best deal that fits my needs. 

I have come across some really good deals, except the
size of the pieces are bigger than the pickup trucks
most of you guys drive can handle.

I live in Steel Valley and the cost of steel here is
higher and the scrap piles are smaller than when I
live in a not steel producing big city.

Right now I am looking for a 3/4 inch channel with the
uprights at least an inch. must be strong but not too
thick. This is to repair my two wheeler with a lift
built in. Can find this sort of thing. I may have to
forge it out, then machine it to fit.

Jerry

--- "David E. Smucker" <davesmucker at hotmail.com>
wrote:

> Stephen,
> 
> I spend 32 years as an engineer in the basic metals
> industry (in my case 
> aluminum, alumiini, or aluminium to you) but factors
> effecting the price of 
> basic metals are the same whether steel, aluminum or
> copper.  At the end of 
> the day it is really what is the demand and how
> large is the supply.  But it 
> is not quite that simple.  Energy prices are a big
> factor, in the case of 
> steel, the price of coal / coke and the price of
> electricity.  But even if 
> the price of energy is high, if you can't sell it at
> a price to cover the 
> cost of energy you can do one of two things sell
> below cost or shut down and 
> don't sell at all.
> 
> Now cost is not so simple -- you have two ways to
> look at cost -- full cost 
> which includes your cash cost plus investment cost
> plus profit.  When demand 
> is high, as it currently is world wide then you get
> to charge full cost.  As 
> demand starts to drop, then you loose the profit
> piece, but you still pay 
> your investment cost.  (The huge capital it took you
> to build a steel mill.) 
> As demand drops more, you cover just cash costs --
> wages, energy, raw 
> material.  As buyers of steel we like this last
> case, except then mills 
> close, supply drops, demand rises and so does price.
>  Price rises enough and 
> someone builds new plants.  On and on in an endless
> cycle -- in the aluminum 
> industry we used to say during you working years you
> would go through at 
> least 7 boom to bust cycles.  And yes some folks get
> very rich in the good 
> years, and some really loose their butt in the bad
> years.  Staying in 
> business means finding a balance, which includes not
> charging too much in 
> the good times -- or someone will build a new (and
> often better) plant and 
> force an over supply.
> 
> Hope this makes some sense.  (I also know that we
> will hear from some folks 
> on theforge that think this is all just "fixed" but
> it isn't.  Yes from time 
> to time there are some bad actors such as ENRON, in
> energy, but in the end 
> most if not all of these will fail -- but they do
> cause much pain in the 
> process.)
> 
> Dave Smucker
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Stephen Viola" <wombatforge at gmail.com>
> To: <artgawk at thegrid.net>; "Sponsored by ABANA"
> <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 10:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] RE: Tool Steel
> 
> 
> > Yeah it seems that both steel and coal have
> decided to take a hike
> > through the roof.. not sure why.. due to oil
> prices or what??? if not
> > it is always easy to blame it on oil anyway!
> > I'm not that much of a market follower so I have
> no real idea why the
> > prices are escalating.
> > Can anyone shed some light on that?
> >
> > Stephen
> >
> > On 24/12/06, Peter Fels And Phoebe Palmer
> <artgawk at thegrid.net> wrote:
> >> It's sorta academic Stephen...we all pay what we
> have to. The era
> >> of lovely cheap steel seems to be long gone.
> >> Last time i bought a decent quantity of stock
> steel it was less
> >> than that by about 20%. That supplier doesn't
> know that anything
> >> other than A36 exists. Buy a small quantity and
> pay through the
> >> proverbial nose....pf
> >>
> >> Stephen Viola wrote:
> >> > Hi all.. with all this talk about metal
> suppliers it got me to
> >> > thinking about a price comparison. Through the
> college I study at we
> >> > tend to convert everything into a kilo price
> except for pipe/tubing.
> >> > On average I'd say I pay about â‚¬1 per kilo of
> construction steel. Of
> >> > course the prices change as soon as you are
> looking at alloyed /
> >> > carbon steels. But how does this price compare
> with you guys?
> >> >
> >> > Stephen
> >> >
> >> > On 23/12/06, Chuck Robinson
> <robi5515 at bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >> >> Thanks everyone for your recommendations i'm
> checking them all out.
> >> >> Chuck
> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> From: "Bob Ehrenberger"
> <eforge at centurytel.net>
> >> >> To: "theforge" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> >> >> Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 7:54 AM
> >> >> Subject: [TheForge] RE: Tool Steel
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > Chuck,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > We get our tool steel from Admeral Steel in
> Chicago.
> >> >> > They will work with you and don't mind small
> orders.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Robert Ehrenberger
> >> >> > Shelbyville, Mo.
> >> >> > eforge at centurytel.net
> >> >> >
> >> >> > ----Original Message----
> >> >> > Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 10:47:15 -0600
> >> >> > From: "Chuck Robinson"
> <robi5515 at bellsouth.net>
> >> >> > Subject: [TheForge] Tool steel source
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I need a source or sources for round and
> square stock  W-1 and H-13 
> >> >> > in
> >> >> > small
> >> >> > quantities. The GCBA conference in February
> is featuring Frank
> >> >> Turley as
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > main demonstrator and he requires them for
> his demo.
> >> >> > Chuck
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
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