[TheForge] Induction Forge? Miller

Mon Aug 21 08:02:13 EDT 2006

Ries, 

Are you sure about all Millers being "made in USA"? One of the circuit
boards that governs the speed pick up on my circa 1985 375 amp Miller run by
a 4 cyl Waukesha (now Arrow Specialties) diesel has "Made in Mexico" proudly
emblazoned upon it. Btw, does anyone know who makes the buzz boxes Snap-on
sold about 20 or so years ago? They were red, but unlike Lincoln have a
variable amp control in the center. 

Ron C 

-----Original Message-----
From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
[mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ries Niemi
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 6:21 PM
To: Sponsored by ABANA
Subject: Re: [TheForge] Induction Forge?

I am not a big fan of "all in one" designs for anything- the combo 
brake/shear/rolls are garbage, the lathe/milling machines are crap, the 
shopsmith is an amusing idea that does nothing well-
But the closest I come is my inverter welder- it will run a mig wire 
feeder head, tig weld, or stick weld, all better than the older, 
standalone machines I also have.

But, and its a big but- even though it all looks alike- there are 
different types of electricity- and what you need for welding- my tig 
inverter is usually putting out 170 amps at 25 volts or so- is 
drastically different than what you would need for a induction forge. 
Cant remember Grants explanation of the output, but its night and day 
from what a tig welder puts out.
It would be kinda like saying my lawnmower and my Cat D9 are both 
powered by internal combustion engines, so why not combine the 
functions of the two?
Yes, it could probably be done- and it would do each job worse, cost 
more, and have inherent design flaws that are just about 
insurmountable.

The germans have a word for this- they would call it an 
"egglayingwoolmilkpig"-  something that tries to do everything.

I am all for buying an inverter power supply- but so far, the only ones 
that both weld and plasma cut are funky no name chinese imports- and 
they dont have either Grant Sarver, or Kaynes standing behind them.
I will buy a no name chinese induction forge from Grant, but not from 
some guy on ebay who cant tell an oscilloscope from a stethescope.

My welders are either red or blue. They work, parts are available, most 
are made in the USA- (all millers, most lincolns).

Experiments are fine for hor d'ourves- not for welders.

Ries

On Aug 20, 2006, at 10:12 AM, Jerry Frost wrote:

> Thanks for the rundown Ries.
>
> Even with our higher elec rates it isn't hard to imagine it being 
> cheaper to run than propane; it cost me $50 to fill my 100lb bottle a 
> few weeks ago. <sigh> I about died a few years ago when my folks told 
> me they had electric heat in the new house. It took a few seconds to 
> remember Grand Coulee is only an hour or so from their place. You 
> can't sell a house with electric heat here, the elec bills run higher 
> than the mortgage.
>
> I haven't been involved heavily in welding since inverter welders 
> started getting popular so I don't know much about them. I'll be 
> checking into them though, I have a new shop in the making and need 
> some tools and equipment to fill in all the space. <grin>
>
> I'm thinking Pete has a good point about an induction forge 
> "control/adapter/?" that plugs into a base welder for power. The pics 
> make this seem likely as they show a power(?) unit and a 
> cooling/control(?) unit. If so just buying the control unit and using 
> your existing welder for power would make it a lot more affordable.
>
> Not pumping out a lot of waste heat is a good thing even here though 
> it isn't a seriously bad thing in winter. It's still WASTE heat and I 
> can heat my shop a LOT cheaper with a stove than the forge.
>
> Frosty
> -------------------------------
> If it ain't forged
> it ain't real.
> Wrought iron is.
> The FrostWorks
>
> Meadow Lakes, AK.
>
> http://www.artmetalradio.com/
>
> From: "Ries Niemi" <rniemi at fidalgo.net>
>
>
>> Electrically, I think its pretty  similar to an inverter welder- so 
>> the only power draw when its not heating metal is a fan, and the pump 
>> on the coolant radiator.
>> Electrical consumption is pretty minimal.
>> Grant, who, like me, lives in Western Washington, where we benefit 
>> from dirt cheap Bonneville Power Administration electric rates, says 
>> it runs about 40 cents an hour for him to run it.
>> He says its cheaper than propane, and since the induction machine is 
>> only working a fraction of the time, its probably a lot cheaper in 
>> the long run.
>> It has a couple of timers built in- a heat timer, and a dwell timer, 
>> which keeps the piece hot once its up to heat- both are adjustable, 
>> along with the amps, to make it possible to fine tune it to perfectly 
>> heat any size or shape piece. You can hook up foot pedal to initiate 
>> the cycle, so you put in your metal, hit the foot pedal, and then, 
>> say, 14 seconds later, take it out.
>> No warm up period- I am pretty sure it uses SCR's just like an 
>> inverter welder does.
>> And I know my inverter welder beats the pants off my transformer 
>> welders, and uses less power as well to get the same amperage.
>> As someone who has spent well over 10 grand on my various welders, I 
>> dont see the $3800 price tag as a big issue- but I am a working shop, 
>> as opposed to a hobby type.
>> The price is about equivalent to a well setup 300amp tig machine. And 
>> I have 2 of those.
>> Like Jim, this thing is definitely on my "to buy" tool list.
>>
>> ries
>>
>
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Ries Niemi
Industrial Artist

http://www.RiesNiemi.com

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