[TheForge] Re: Heating with woodstove OT

craig.schaefer at verizon.net craig.schaefer at verizon.net
Tue May 24 11:45:48 EDT 2005 

No offense intended to anyone using pellets, but I have always wondered about the true efficiency of using a 'processed' fuel.
I suppose it could be considered that the pellets are made from waste, but how much energy does it take to make them?
Just a thought.

CraigS
Gresham, OR 


>From: Ralph Sproul <brhlbsmt at mcttelecom.com>
>Date: Tue May 24 05:35:08 CDT 2005
>To: Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>Subject: Re: [TheForge] Re: Heating with woodstove OT

>Hi Grant, A couple of friends put the pellet stove into the shops as they
>dont' create the creosote problems of undried wood does.
>
>The find them to be nice, easy to load, and bagged fuel is better than
>splitting and chopping.  They find they need more pellets for a stove the
>same size as the wood ones were.  In other words going with a same size
>pellet stove found their shops about 10 degrees cooler.......so they'd
>wished they'd gone a tad larger with the pellet stoves they purchased for
>output (for those who may be considering this).
>
>I spoke with Bob Bergman last fall and he'd mentioned he'd put in one of the
>outside boilers (that he'd built himself from a set of plans).  This spring
>he was thrilled with the results and felt he'd beat the game as he was able
>to burn pallets, crating, stumps and all the local debris from his farm
>neighbors for heat, along with some wood he's chopping off em a wood lot.
>
>He said the forced draft of one of these outside boilers allows things like
>stumps to be burned for heat as it keeps them going instead of smoldering
>and the availability of cull wood is pretty prevelent in the area.
>
>I'm toying with digging trenches to the house, and shop, placing the outside
>boiler near a storage shed and running the heat to both buildings.  Jan and
>Feb saw $1200 per month costs for wood, propane and oil that it was taking
>to maintain the two buildings.  That boiler cost will recover fast with
>savings on those kind of prices.
>
>One of the greatest problems around here is the wood supply.  The power
>genrating plants (Oil fired) are all converting to bio-fuels so they can
>burn sawdust, chips, mulch, and logs........so it is driving the cost of
>firewood over $200 per cord as local loggers can get $900-1200 per truck
>load for cord wood now...........   So if you dont' have a cheap wood supply
>this whole exercise will be null and void as the loggers are now up to about
>$600 per day in fuel and need to recover it somewhere's and the power plants
>are a sure bet to help that situation
>
>Ralph
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "gblacksmith" <gblacksmith at alamedanet.net>
>To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 10:44 PM
>Subject: Re: [TheForge] Re: Heating with woodstove OT
>
>
>> Ralph:  have you looked into wood "pellet stoves"  These are in common use
>> around Yellowstone NP.   Grant
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Walter Mullett" <wmullett at bright.net>
>> To: "'Sponsored by ABANA'" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>> Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 7:22 PM
>> Subject: RE: [TheForge] Re: Heating with woodstove OT
>>
>>
>> > Ralph,
>> >
>> > If you do have a source of wood, maybe you should consider getting one
>of
>> > those outside wood burning units like the "Hardy".  They are pretty
>> > efficient and won't burn your place down.
>> >
>> > I'm considering one for the house since it cost over 2k this year for
>> > fuel.
>> >
>> > Walt
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
>> > [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ralph Sproul
>> > Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 8:52 PM
>> > To: mspencer at tallships.ca; Sponsored by ABANA
>> > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Re: Heating with woodstove OT
>> >
>> > Hi Mike,  I was very dissappointed this winter.  I locked all the doors,
>> > insulated them, went in and out of just one door, covered the windows in
>> > plastic, and kept the thermostat at 40 at night and 52-55 during the day
>> > ...........and really tried to keep the heat to it all winter to see if
>it
>> > would make a difference........and I just could NOT afford it and turned
>> > it
>> > off and dawned my insulated coveralls in March.   I gave it an honest
>> > try -
>> > but it just ain't gonna happen unless I can get an outside boiler to
>heat
>> > this place on free wood - but for the time it takes to load the boiler.
>> >
>> > My shop has 6 inch insulation in all the walls, and a frost wall
>> > foundation
>> > tight to the walls, and 9 inches of insulation in the ceiling - it's
>> > frustrating as hell, as I was really comfortable for $150 to 225 per
>month
>> > for the past three winters......but this last one when our dollar fell
>so
>> > bad was killer.  I found heating it full time was way worse than turning
>> > it
>> > on each time I came in.........even with all the improvements I made.
>It
>> > was less drafty, nice and workable - but just plain unaffordable with
>the
>> > high price of propane now.
>> >
>> > The thing that really scares me with the wood heat in the shop - is four
>> > of
>> > my friends have lost their shops to fire in the past three years.   All
>at
>> > night - due to chimney fires.  This is making me head in the outside
>> > boiler
>> > direction as I just can't afford enough insurance for full replacement
>> > value
>> > - last time I checked it was $4 per hundred.  Afraid I just don't make
>> > that
>> > kind of profit - like they do.
>> >
>> > The house I feel comfortable heating with wood like we always have - as
>> > there are nice masonry chimneys and we keep things clean and run hot
>fires
>> > before closing them down at night.  To run slow burning stoves all night
>> > with huge fireboxes thru metal pipe like most shops are set up is too
>> > risky
>> > to me - and I'm not going to spend 10 grand on a masonry chimney to heat
>> > with like the house has.
>> >
>> > I figure I've worked outside and in cold shops for all but the past four
>> > years of my life - so I'm going back to insulated coveralls or the
>boiler
>> > project - if I can complete it by next Dec.  I'm sure next November's
>> > temps
>> > will be motivational.   :-(
>> >
>> > Ralph
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Mike Spencer" <mspencer at tallships.ca>
>> > To: <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>> > Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 4:32 PM
>> > Subject: [TheForge] Re: Heating with woodstove OT
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Thanks for the numbers on your heating setup, Ralph.  It'll give me a
>> >> starting point to ask questions here.  I expect to do something for
>> >> heat in my 1200 sq. ft. shop this year.  Ten ft. ceiling and an upper
>> >> story where Peggy has her looms.  We need to heat her 600 sq. ft. more
>> >> than mine -- weaving is fiddly finger-work and/or sitting-down work)
>> >> but it would be nice to have my space up to 50 (or at least 40) deg.
>> >> F.  And I can't afford $400/mo propane bills either.
>> >>
>> >> Despite heating the house with wood, I don't want to go with an indoor
>> >> wood stove in the shop.  Don't want oil.  Mumble.....mutter.
>> >>
>> >> On the original question, I found that a 50-gal oil drum wood stove
>> >> would get my previous shop up to comfy (for all but fiddly little
>> >> finger-work) in about four hours, starting with all that iron
>> >> heat-sink at ambient -- say, 5 to 20 deg. F.  Interior walls but no
>> >> insulation. If I'd had New England/N. Dakota outdoor temps of 20 to 40
>> >> below, It would have been totally useless.  Our coldest spells here
>> >> are c. -10 F. at night, 0 daytime.  Maybe 15 to 20 deg warmer than
>> >> northern NH.
>> >>
>> >> - Mike
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Michael Spencer                  Nova Scotia, Canada       .~.
>> >>                                                            /V\
>> >> mspencer at tallships.ca                                     /( )\
>> >> http://home.tallships.ca/mspencer/                        ^^-^^
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
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