[TheForge] Sorry to break in with a blacksmithing question

[David E. Smucker]

Because he is using H13 it may not really matter which he does first.  The 
tempering temperature for the H13 is 1000 degree F.  Still I would weld 
first, then heat treat, then temper.

For the H13 you should preheat to at least 400 F, then make your welds.

Now heat treat the whole thing.  For H13 you need to heat the die material 
to 1850 F.  This is well above the non-magnetic point.  Get you hands on a 
temperature vs. color chart and use that to gauge temperature, assuming you 
do not have a heat treat furnace.  Heat SLOWLY as you bring the die up to 
temperature.  Handbooks say to hold a temperature for 30 minutes per inch of 
thickness.  You can short this some but don't be in a big hurry.  Now remove 
the die from the forge and AIR quench it.  That is set it on the side of the 
forge and let it air cool.  When it gets down to where you can touch it 
temper it right away.  (Don't wait over night.)

Now temper.  Reheat the die to 1000 F.  In very dull light (almost dark) it 
will just start to glow a dark red at this temperature.  For this tempering 
I use a torch -- and heat slowly.  Let air cool.  In industry we would 
temper a second time, but you can get away without this.  You die should be 
about a Rockwell C of 51 to 54.

Hot metal will not draw these dies.  We used H13 and H11 type alloys for hot 
mill rolls and could get their temperature up to 1000 F and not have any 
problems.

Dave Smucker
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Mudge" <dave at magichammer.net>
To: "'Sponsored by ABANA'" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 5:27 PM
Subject: RE: [TheForge] Sorry to break in with a blacksmithing question


> Phil,
> I think that if you harden & temper the dies first then weld them to a
> mounting plate that you will loose your temper. Don't you have to pre heat
> the thick die material to about 400 degrees before welding?
>
> I also think that there was some discussion about the need for hardening &
> tempering dies in the first place. Do you loose your temper when you place
> 1500 / 2000 degree metal on the dies for an extended period while forging?
>
> These are NOT answers to your questions, just discussion points.
>
> dave mudge
> dave at magichammer.net
> http://www.magichammer.net
> http://www.metalsmithinghowto.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Phil
> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 3:32 PM
> To: Sponsored by ABANA
> Subject: [TheForge] Sorry to break in with a blacksmithing question
>
> I can't remember what I did before when attaching the
> dies to the mounting plates for a kinyon hammer.  I'm
> using H-13 for the dies.
>
> Should I weld the dies to the mounting plates, and
> then harden and temper them, or harden and temper the
> dies, and then weld them to the mounting plates?
>
> Once again, sorry for breaking in with a blacksmithing question.
>
>
>
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