[TheForge] Re: brill dit stock (VICTORY!)

Justin Fellenz sunironworks at yahoo.com
Thu Jun 2 14:29:29 EDT 2005 

So it was too late, I used play-doh because it's what I could find.
You're right, it torns into goop, but it sort of worked. The solution
didnt touch the aluminum and with a little heat (which the play-doh
didn't like either) it got to bubbling on the steel pretty good...but
in several minutes hadn't really made any apprecaible headway. I think
it would work with the right clay and time and heat, but I don't have
any of those but heat.

So I took the previous suggestion and tig welded a piece of stainless
rod to the extractor and used the slide hammer to pop it out. As
discussed I actually made a stack of tack welds and then welded the rod
onto that. The extractor popped right out, so I drilled the rest of the
hole, tapped it, and the two manifolds are once again together.

Tune in tomorrow when the old beast runs again. Man, you see Jesse
james tig up a set of headers in 1 hour-long show, kinda throws the
perspective out of whack. I know time is compressed...but I've got
three days of coping tubing and welding and swearing into the header I
just built for this old truck. 

Thanks for your help, folks. Many good tricks to put in the bag. I
really like the mini carbon arc setup--gotta build me one of those,
when I'm not racing the clock. Everything's gotta either run or be in a
box by the 30th.

JRF

--- Chris Kilpatrick <crimsonkil at lycos.com> wrote:

> How about welding all thread to it, then running a nut down the all
> thread. when the nut bottoms out, it puts straight out pressure on
> the screw extractor
> 
> -Chris K.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Justin Fellenz" <sunironworks at yahoo.com>
> To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Re:  brill dit stock (grrr)
> Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:05:24 -0700 (PDT)
> 
> > 
> > Chuck,
> > 
> > This is a real good idea. I've had some good luck welding bolts to
> the
> > stud when I can get to it, but the drilled out bolt is a good way
> to
> > get those way-down-deep ones.
> > 
> > Problem is the screw extractor I used is one of those fluted jobs,
> not
> > the type with a left-hand thread that screws out but the kind with
> > parllalel sides that you hammer into an undersize hole. Blue
> > Point--ever used one? No, I bet not, because they're crap.
> Anyway...the
> > thing needs to come straight out. Could be I could use your idea to
> > weld something to attach a slide hammer onto, though....
> > 
> > Tomorrow is another day.
> > 
> > Thanks for your input.
> > 
> > JRF
> > 
> > --- Chuck Robinson <robi5515 at bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > 
> > > Hey Justin,
> > > I just found the article in the Home Shop Machinist  March/April
> 2004
> > > bout removing broken taps and studs.
> > >  Basically if the tap or stud is close to flush with the surface
> > > place the next smaller size nut centered over the hole, reach 
> > > down with a 1/16"
> > >
> > > 308L-L16 rod at 65 amps DCEP and weld the stud to the nut
> > > It might take a few tries.
> > > If the stud/tap is broken further down in the hole, take a next
> size
> > > down bolt, long enough to touch the stud/tap, center drill a hole
> in it
> > > -large enough for the rod to reach the offending part and weld
> the bolt to
> > > it.
> > > I also found that a few squirts of Sili-Kroil penetrant really
> helps.
> > > when backing out the bolt.
> > > Chuck
> > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Justin Fellenz"
> <sunironworks at yahoo.com>
> > > To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 6:54 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Re: brill dit stock (grrr)
> > >
> > >
> > > > Roger,
> > > >
> > > > Please share how you got that stud out. A stud just twisted off
> > > below
> > > > grade in an aluminum intake manifold I'm working on, so I
> drilled a
> > > > lovely, perfectly centered hole in the stud and
> decided--foolish
> > > me--to
> > > > try my handy-dandy blue-point screw extractor set, which broke
> off
> > > in
> > > > the *%)#$(#+ hole. So now I have high-carbon steel in a soft
> steel
> > > > cylinder in aluminum, flush. I can get the broken end of the
> > > extractor
> > > > good and red without the aluminum disappearing on me, but
> obviously
> > > > cant go hotter. I was hoping that I could anneal the extractor
> by
> > > > keeping the surrounding aluminum warm and then I figgered I'd
> try
> > > my
> > > > own idea of heating the durn thing up and then drilling. The
> heat
> > > runs
> > > > away so fast I ended up drilling while torching and the drill
> got
> > > red
> > > > real fast. Maybe thats the answer though. I'm kind of at an
> > > impasse.
> > > >
> > > > Oh, this is a manifold off an old military truck, not the kind
> of
> > > thing
> > > > I want to wreck and have to replace. Goes without saying I
> suppose.
> > > >
> > > > So...howd'ja do it?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Justin.
> > > >
> > > > --- Roger Olsen <erik at methow.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Hi Ralph,
> > > >>
> > > >> Thank you for the offer to send over a stick of Stud Plus but
> I
> > > have
> > > >> no need at
> > > >> this time.  I solverd my immediatee problem thru stubborness
> and
> > > the
> > > >> sacrifice
> > > >> of other bits.  I will definitly keep the Stud Plus in mind
> and
> > > when
> > > >> next at
> > > >> the welding supply by a stick or two.  I had never heard of it
> > > >> before.
> > > >>
> > > >> I sure appreciate all this exchange of information and offers
> of
> > > >> help.
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks,
> > > >>
> > > >> Roger
> > > >> _________________________
> > > >>
> > > >> Ralph Sproul wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> > Larry has a good point on this one if the tap is only down
> about
> > > >> 1/8 of an
> > > >> > inch.  This rod is called Stud plus by Allstates repair
> rods.  I
> > > >> have
> > > >> > purchased and used two packages of this rod for removal of
> > > broken
> > > >> studs and
> > > >> > bolts from flywheels, dampers, castings, etc.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I've found the rod does what Larry says and stays to the
> center
> > > if
> > > >> your not
> > > >> > to deep.  The flux goes out and fills the threads.  On
> deeper
> > > holes
> > > >> where
> > > >> > something is in about 3/8 to 3/4 deep.......I've used a
> piece of
> > > >> rubber
> > > >> > vacuum hose over the stick to make sure I dont' side arc the
> > > >> threads.   When
> > > >> > it is a real critical location I've also used those fibre
> faucet
> > > >> washers as
> > > >> > "bullseyes" to make sure I hit dead center on the broken
> stud or
> > > >> bolt with
> > > >> > the rod.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Roger, do you want me to send along a rod of this material. 
>  It
> > > is
> > > >> like
> > > >> > 150,018........and it forms up like an icicle - one tack on
> top
> > > of
> > > >> the other
> > > >> > until you can get a grip on the stack of repair rod with a
> set
> > > of
> > > >> vice
> > > >> > grips - or welding on a nut to get a better two sided twist
> > > works
> > > >> well also.
> > > >> > So it does not weld up like stud welding - but rather one
> tack
> > > on
> > > >> top of the
> > > >> > next to build it out to where you can get at it.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Ralph
> > > >> >
> > > >> > ----- Original Message -----
> > > >> > From: "Larry and Pat Brown" <lp.brown at verizon.net>
> > > >> > To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> > > >> > Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 9:42 PM
> > > >> > Subject: Re: [TheForge] drill bit stock
> > > >> >
> > > >> > > Do you have an electric welder? They sell a rod for
> building
> > > up
> > > >> broken
> > > >> > > bolts to get them out, The rod burns in the center, under
> the
> > > >> coating and
> > > >> > > doesn't arc to the sides allowing you to puddle a new bolt
> > > shaft.
> > > >> Used
> > > >> > them
> > > >> > > about 4 times with success. Would have used more but that
> was
> > > all
> > > >> that was
> > > >> > > in the sample pack. I would try to heat the bit first,
> then
> > > build
> > > >> it up to
> > > >> > > where vise grips will help
> > > >> > > Larry Brown
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > At 08:50 AM 5/31/2005 -0700, you wrote:
> > > >> > > >Does anyone out there know the type of stock used in the
> > > common
> > > >> hardware
> > > >> > > >store high speed drill bits for steel.  Do you per chance
> > > know
> > > >> the steps
> > > >> > > >for annealing them.
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > >Yes,  I ask because I broke a drill bit in a piece of
> stock
> > > >> where
> > > >> > > >welding, reforging, and repositioning was not an option. 
> I
> > > >> tried all
> > > >> > > >the tricks as well as attemting to anneal as I would a
> common
> > > >> high
> > > >> > > >carbon steel and drill it out but it seemed to have
> little or
> > > no
> > > >> affect.
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > >Thank you,
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > >Roger Olsen
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > >_______________________________________________
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> > > >> > > >Login:  blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> > > >> > > >password:  anvil
> > > >> > > >___________
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > >> > >
> > > >> > >
> > > >> >
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> 
> 
> It is I who formed the blacksmith, 
> who fans the flame into a fire and
> fashions a weapon fit for it's work.
> 
> 
> -- 
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