[TheForge] Gas Forge Recommendation

[Peter Fels And Phoebe Palmer]

This brings up yet another thing that leaves me even more confused...to 
wit...
If one contaminates a torch or tig weld with oil or grease it gets ugly 
usually....hard to get the weld to take......
Why isn't that the case with forge welding?....Pete F

Jerry Frost wrote:
> Dang! Just as I'm about to head off to Wi. to the first ever Artmetal 
> Shindig a good thread comes up.
> 
> There's some bit of myth involved in just what "welding" temp is. 
> There're more factors than heat involved, clean being number two on the 
> list. Get the metal clean and smooth enough and it doesn't take heat at 
> all, of course this is VERY clean and mirror finished.
> 
> I've seen a demo billet welded at barely bright red. The individual 
> pieces were matched and polished, then lightly oiled. The stacked billet 
> got a perimeter bead with a small gap to vent and a drop of 3in1 oil in 
> the gap as it cooled for "flux". Heated and soaked at bright red a 
> pattern of gentle raps, barely enough to hammer mark the surface, welded 
> it solid.
> 
> I've looked at some pics and drawings of chip forges and think there's 
> some real promise, enough to try making one anyway. There isn't much 
> volume of chips and the burner inlet isn't simple but it's not terribly 
> complicated either.
> 
> All the commercial models I've seen are gun burners and the way the 
> burner feeds into the chips I have doubts a naturally aspirated burner 
> will work. Gonna give it a try though.
> 
> Gotta get the shop up first though.
> 
> One last thought on chip forges and forge workshops. I would discourage 
> a workshop till there was a proven working model to "copy". A workshop 
> with a bunch of guys expecting to take a working forge home isn't the 
> place to expreiment.
> 
> Frosty
> ------------------------
> If it ain't forged
> it ain't real.
> Wrought iron is.
> The FrostWorks
> 
> Meadow Lakes, AK.
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: <Keporter at aol.com>
> To: <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 11:17 AM
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Gas Forge Recommendation
> 
> 
>>
>> In a message dated 7/9/2005 9:19:39 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
>> frosty at customcpu.com writes:
>>
>> One of  the other factors to consider is forge displacement. A typical 
>> 3/4"
>> burner  is good in 300 cu/" and adequate for 350 cu/". A 3/4" jet ejector
>> type  easily powers a 350 cu/" forge. I have my 1" burner poked into 
>> about
>> 400  cu/" so it's no wonder it produces better than "average" heat. 
>> Cheat?
>> Me?  <grin>
>>
>> Frosty
>>
>>
>> Frosty
>> I think welding heat for many people involved in Damascus steel, etc. has
>> more to do with deliberately overheating in order to make sure that no
>> delaminating occurs, and of course, to speed up production time, than 
>> it has to  do
>> with typical blacksmithing operations, including upset welding. This 
>> is fine
>> with me; equipment is strictly about getting results in my view. 
>> However, I
>> think they are missing a bet by running tunnel forges at very high 
>> heats to do
>> so.
>>
>> I believe that what they are trying to accomplish would be better done in
>> ceramic chip forges. With the use of such forges thermal mass could be 
>> employed
>> to reduce heat loss as compared with rapid exchange of atmospheres (as 
>> is the
>> case with tunnel forges run at high gas pressures). Also, the ceramic 
>> chips
>> could absorb heat steadily from gas flames, and then release it 
>> rapidly into
>> the  work by conduction, thus operating with the kind of efficiency 
>> boost seen
>> in hybrid electric cars, where a small gasoline motor feeds a series of
>> batteries, which quickly release larger amounts of energy when needed, 
>> rather
>> than running a large motor all the time.
>>
>> Five years ago, my concern was getting the most performance and the most
>> flexibility out of small forge designs. Back then, being able to run a 
>> day's
>> production from one twenty pound propane tank looked like a hobbyist's 
>> dream
>> come true. However, looking to the future of crafts in the light of 
>> escalating
>> fuel prices, I believe that efficiency will become a an ever  more 
>> critical
>> issue. These days, I'm looking at industrial cost  cutting methods cut 
>> down to a
>> hobby scale; not that they are needed yet,  but in another five years who
>> knows? That isn't too long a time period for  designing downdraft 
>> forges, etc.
>> Mike P.
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