[TheForge] Gas Forge Recommendation

[Jerry Frost]

Dang! Just as I'm about to head off to Wi. to the first ever Artmetal 
Shindig a good thread comes up.

There's some bit of myth involved in just what "welding" temp is. There're 
more factors than heat involved, clean being number two on the list. Get the 
metal clean and smooth enough and it doesn't take heat at all, of course 
this is VERY clean and mirror finished.

I've seen a demo billet welded at barely bright red. The individual pieces 
were matched and polished, then lightly oiled. The stacked billet got a 
perimeter bead with a small gap to vent and a drop of 3in1 oil in the gap as 
it cooled for "flux". Heated and soaked at bright red a pattern of gentle 
raps, barely enough to hammer mark the surface, welded it solid.

I've looked at some pics and drawings of chip forges and think there's some 
real promise, enough to try making one anyway. There isn't much volume of 
chips and the burner inlet isn't simple but it's not terribly complicated 
either.

All the commercial models I've seen are gun burners and the way the burner 
feeds into the chips I have doubts a naturally aspirated burner will work. 
Gonna give it a try though.

Gotta get the shop up first though.

One last thought on chip forges and forge workshops. I would discourage a 
workshop till there was a proven working model to "copy". A workshop with a 
bunch of guys expecting to take a working forge home isn't the place to 
expreiment.

Frosty
------------------------
If it ain't forged
it ain't real.
Wrought iron is.
The FrostWorks

Meadow Lakes, AK.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Keporter at aol.com>
To: <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: [TheForge] Gas Forge Recommendation


>
> In a message dated 7/9/2005 9:19:39 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> frosty at customcpu.com writes:
>
> One of  the other factors to consider is forge displacement. A typical 
> 3/4"
> burner  is good in 300 cu/" and adequate for 350 cu/". A 3/4" jet ejector
> type  easily powers a 350 cu/" forge. I have my 1" burner poked into about
> 400  cu/" so it's no wonder it produces better than "average" heat. Cheat?
> Me?  <grin>
>
> Frosty
>
>
> Frosty
> I think welding heat for many people involved in Damascus steel, etc. has
> more to do with deliberately overheating in order to make sure that no
> delaminating occurs, and of course, to speed up production time, than it 
> has to  do
> with typical blacksmithing operations, including upset welding. This is 
> fine
> with me; equipment is strictly about getting results in my view. However, 
> I
> think they are missing a bet by running tunnel forges at very high heats 
> to do
> so.
>
> I believe that what they are trying to accomplish would be better done in
> ceramic chip forges. With the use of such forges thermal mass could be 
> employed
> to reduce heat loss as compared with rapid exchange of atmospheres (as is 
> the
> case with tunnel forges run at high gas pressures). Also, the ceramic 
> chips
> could absorb heat steadily from gas flames, and then release it rapidly 
> into
> the  work by conduction, thus operating with the kind of efficiency boost 
> seen
> in hybrid electric cars, where a small gasoline motor feeds a series of
> batteries, which quickly release larger amounts of energy when needed, 
> rather
> than running a large motor all the time.
>
> Five years ago, my concern was getting the most performance and the most
> flexibility out of small forge designs. Back then, being able to run a 
> day's
> production from one twenty pound propane tank looked like a hobbyist's 
> dream
> come true. However, looking to the future of crafts in the light of 
> escalating
> fuel prices, I believe that efficiency will become a an ever  more 
> critical
> issue. These days, I'm looking at industrial cost  cutting methods cut 
> down to a
> hobby scale; not that they are needed yet,  but in another five years who
> knows? That isn't too long a time period for  designing downdraft forges, 
> etc.
> Mike P.
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