[TheForge] counterfeit bolts and steel

[Ries Niemi]

On Saturday, January 8, 2005, at 11:09 PM, terry l. ridder wrote:

> hello;
>
> i was reading various web pages concerning the problems with 
> counterfeit
> bolts and steel. google for 'counterfeit bolts'.
>
> how would the average person be able to determine whether or not the
> bolts or steel is actually what it claims to be? are those grade 8 
> bolts
> really grade 8 bolts or just a cheap knockoff? is the tool steel really
> the tool steel you specified?
>
> is the metal you specified really what was delivered?
>
> now related to the above. would it be possible to build a homebrew 
> auger
> mass spectrograph? what type of analysis and/or testing would be needed
> to ensure that the bolts and metals are really what they claim to be?
> could this analysis and/or testing be done in the hobby environment?
>
> -- 
> terry l. ridder ><>
> _______________________________________________
>

Terry- I dont doubt there is some problem with counterfeit bolts, but 
it is mostly located in industries where bolts go for tens or hundreds 
of dollars each, and require extensive documentation- ie, nuclear, 
defense, aircraft, and structural steel for bridges and skyscrapers.
I do pretty large scale stuff, up to a 40 ft bridge once, and I dont 
think I have ever had anything where it would be a big problem, as long 
as the bolts were at least grade 3.
The average person is not a big bolt consumer to begin with, and the 
average blacksmith tends to overdesign everything so much, that bolt 
failure is probably not likely to cause big disasters.
I am confident that larger suppliers like Fasteners Inc., and MSC, 
where I buy most of my bolts, are doing testing, are buying from 
reputable sources, and are supplying me with bolts that will be strong 
enough for the uses I am putting them to.
I would not buy no-name chinese bolts at a flea market, and expect them 
to hold heavy weights over people, but I dont do that anyway.
So I think the counterfeit bolt thing is a bit of a tempest in a 
teapot- it may be a concern to Boeing or Northrup, but for most of us 
it isnt a real problem.

Now if you want to build a mass spectrograph just for the fun of it, I 
sure wouldnt want to talk you out of it, but it has been my experience 
that machines that cost several million new can not usually be 
duplicated for a few hundred bucks in the garage. And personally, my 
metallurgical know how is nowhere near enough to decipher results 
anyway- so you go for it, and let us know how it turns out.

ries