[TheForge] quench questions

Fri Jan 7 16:29:21 EST 2005

I've been off list for several weeks,  since the topic has been pretty well
discussed.
My input will be brief:
The anvils are made from  5" square X 24"  1340 double melt crucible steel
billets.
I use a 55 gallon drum of Gunthers quench  (RGSQ) to heat treat my anvils.
I built a special forge to rapidly heat about 5 inches of the anvil face to
about 1600 F.
I only heat enough of the billet to harden the working face, and then
rapidly and rotate the anvil suspended from a engine crane in the quench.
If the whole billet was heated to critical,  it would take a much larger
volume of RGSQ to quench it.
They test out at about  RC- 50
Rob Gunther said that  none of the substitute surfactants he tested
worked as well as Shaklee Basic I.
I use RGSQ quite often for  hardening low and medium carbon steel  for
intermittent use tooling and dies , but don't recommend it for critical or
heavy use dies and tooling for heavy impact work.
 Made some 4140 oil hardened dies for my little giant that are still good
after years of use.
 your machining time is going to be a lot more expensive than the cost of
tool steel.
I would recommend making the dove tail LG die bases out of 4140 or 4340 and
then bolting replacement die faces on to them made from A36  only If the
tool steel Isn't readily available.
Remember RGSQ works well on simple low and medium carbon steel, 1045
maximum, but you'll be disappointed if you try it with high carbon or some
alloy steels.
RGSQ is the only way that I can get HC railroad spike knives (1030) hard
enough to hold an edge unless you  sanmai  it, or case harden it.
Chuck

----- Original Message -----
From: "David E. Smucker" <davesmucker at hotmail.com>
To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: [TheForge] quench questions

> I don't want to speak for Chuck here -- and I expect we will hear from
> him -- but I would point out that Chuck's anvils are not A36.  I don't
> remember what they are but they have some reasonable (and controlled)
level
> of alloy content.  If I remember right they were surplus material from
some
> major manufacturing operations.  They are made from "square stock" about 6
x
> 6 inches or maybe it is 5 x 5 inches with rounded corners -- typical for
> large square stock from the rolling process.
>
> Using "Rapid Quench" -- my name for super quench -- that is just what
Chuck
> is getting -- a high heat removal rate -- and with the mass of his anvils
it
> cause no problems.  This is very common process in industrial heat
treating
> of large parts.  Steels that we would consider Air Hardening are if fact
> quenched with high force water sprays because with the large mass this is
> what is required to give the correct quench rate.  Some tools steel
> manufactures who shops I have be in use this process for making very large
> die blocks for heavy press work -- these blocks weigh tons.  Similar
process
> are used in some heat treating of large forged or cast rolls for rolling
> mills.
>
> My whole point is that it is the rate of quench for any given steel that
is
> important -- for small sections of A36 "Rapid Quench" works to generate
some
> hardening.  You will get less in true mild steel such as 1020 and in very
> low carbon steel such as 1008 you will get next to none.  The same "Rapid
> Quench" on a heavy section of A36 will not produce the same hardening to
any
> depth because you just can cool the mass of steel fast enough.  An example
> in the other directions is I have some 7/8 dia 4340 stock which would
> normally be consider an oil hardening steel -- yet this steel will get
hard
> enough if just air cooled in a thin section (say 1/2 dia) after forging to
> take the teeth off my band saw -- done that.
>
> I from the school of "no magic" with Rapid Quench (other wise know as
super
> quench) it is just a quench medium that is faster than plain water.  In
fact
> it is a medium that was "designed" to equal a NaOH - NaCl solution quench

> medium without the risk of the caustic.
>
> Dave Smucker
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bruce Freeman" <FREEMAB at pt.fdah.com>
> To: <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 9:22 AM
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] quench questions
>
>
> > Talk to Chuck Robinson about this.  (He's on this list.)  He hardens
> > knifemakers anvils (200lb+?) in superquench.  I've got his video.
> >
> > Bruce
> > NJ
> >
> >>>> osan at netlabs.net 12/28/2004 9:57:16 PM >>>
> >
> >
> > Peter Fels And Phoebe Palmer wrote:
> >> My fuzzy memory is that Rob G said he had used it for  A36 hammer
> > dies
> >> and it yielded " Enormous toughness".......PF
> >
> > What size dies, though?  I cannot imagine that it would suck the
> > heat
> > out of a 200# chunk of steel quickly enough, but I may be wrong.  I've
> >
> > never tried it on anything larger than about two pounds.  Qorked great
> >
> > for that, though.  :)
> > _______________________________________________
> > Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> > theforge mail list group photo site is
> > http://www.photoaccess.com
> > Login:  blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> > password:  anvil
> > ___________
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> > theforge mail list group photo site is
> > http://www.photoaccess.com
> > Login:  blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> > password:  anvil
> > ___________
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> theforge mail list group photo site is
> http://www.photoaccess.com
> Login:  blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> password:  anvil
> ___________
>
>