[TheForge] Triangles

Tue May 4 21:43:51 2004

Bob,

The acoustic properties of steels are affected by many factors, and
"scientific proof", along with a lot of specific data is available if you
know where to look. You might want to consider looking into a metallurgical
reference book such as Metals Handbook or a text on ultrasonic inspection.

The two acoustic properties that come to mind as major players in
determining the sound of a triangle or bell are acoustic velocity
(longitudinal/compression, transverse/shear and surface)and acoustic
impedance. You can find this kind of data tabulated in metallurgical texts,
and if you do a web search, I'm sure you could come up with a number of
narrowly focused research papers on the subject. In any event, you'll find
that carbon content, alloying elements, heat treatment and deformation/work
(both cold and hot) all play significant roles. In each case, you'll find
that the answer lies in how each of these factors affects the crystalline
structure(s) of the metal. An FCC lattice can be expected to transmit sound
differently from a BCC lattice or a highly strained martensitic structure,
for example. Throw in the fact that most steels are a mixture of phases and
the problem gets really complex. Acoustic impedance is probably the most
complicated acoustic property of all. You're best bet is probably to
research metallurgical texts for information on acoustic properties.

Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 7:48 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TheForge] Triangles

Thanks for the reply Steve. But what I am really
interested in is the scientific proof that says that
using higher carbon steel produces a different
ring than lower carbon steel and also why quenching
would affect the ring. These thoughts are often
presented as a given. If the proof is that common
it should be easy to show. Listening to various samples
is  subjective.

Bob
____

On May 4, 2004, at 5:55 PM, Steve Smith wrote:

> Bob, I think you have a very good point (in the absence of data at 
> this end also). Hardening the steel affects yield point, not elastic 
> bending.
>
> This should be pretty simple to try. I'd do it myself, but I'm still 
> trying to get my chimney up on the new shop--still no forge here. If 
> someone trys it, the listening test should be blind: a helper does the 
> ringing of the triangles, and the listener doesn't know whether it is 
> a hardened triangle or a soft one. Several (random) trials of each. 
> Who's going to volunteer?
>
> Steve Smith
>
> [email protected] wrote:
>
>> Is it really the hardness or carbon content of the steel that changes
>> the tone or is it the shape?
>> I think the shape. Small differences between one triangle and another
>> may change the tone but I think the tone is not affected by the carbon
>> content or the quenching. Super or otherwise.
>> This opinion is just an opinion. I have no actual data to confirm or 
>> deny.
>> If you do have actual data (not anecdotal) I would like to see it.
>> Bob
>> ___________
>>> At 15:57 05/03/04, you wrote:
>>>
>>>> Made a few triangles - I found that mild steel works
>>>> fine, but you get a much better ring if you quench the
>>>> corners in superquench. Really improves the tone and
>>>> intensity.
>>>>
>>>> FWFaller
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