[TheForge] disintegrating welding rod

Thu Dec 23 22:28:06 EST 2004

The use of the TIG to tack weld -- and then flux and forge weld can in deed 
work very well.  I have seen Susan Hutchinson  do very small forge welds by 
using a small "rivet" make from small dia wire to hold two part in position 
to make the forge weld.  She then heats and fluxes the parts and makes the 
weld.  For these very small welds she use a small piece of railroad rail as 
the anvil and puts it right on the forge so the distance from fire to anvil 
is very short.  She even preheats the anvil on the side of her forge fire. 
Really neat to see her work and I would find it hard to believe you could 
make this small of forge weld if I hadn't see it.

Dave
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Darrell" <darrell at machinemaster.com>
To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: [TheForge] disintegrating welding rod

> The other option is to treat the TIG weld as a tack and flux and forge 
> weld
> the part.
> Darrell
>
> http://www.machinemaster.com
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "David E. Smucker" <davesmucker at hotmail.com>
> To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 2:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] disintegrating welding rod
>
>
>> I don't think so Bruce.  Welding rod / wire it very tough in almost all
>> cases -- alloy content is controled so that it is not "hot short" in my
>> terms.  I have used many tig welds in forging applications and have never
>> had them fail.  I think this failure is most likely a lack of 
>> penataration
>> with unwelded metal at the root.  This will cause problems just like a
> cold
>> shunt.  A weld in this type of application needs to be a full depth 
>> groove
>> or V weld.  You want to go into the fire with 100 percent metal -- not
>> something with a crack that will just grow under forging.
>>
>> Dave
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Bruce Freeman" <FREEMAB at pt.fdah.com>
>> To: <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 10:35 AM
>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] disintegrating welding rod
>>
>>
>> > Contribution from a non-weldor:
>> >
>> > Is it possible that a weld bead could be red-short?  Electric welding
>> > is a melting operation, so it's not clear to me that red-short wire or
>> > rod would be a disadvantage there.  Clearly, such a material would fall
>> > apart when forged, however.
>> >
>> > Bruce
>> > NJ
>> >
>> >>>> sunironworks at yahoo.com 12/23/2004 10:07:16 AM >>>
>> > Yeah, I thought so too. Could be I got some gunk in there or like you
>> > say the different harndesses made a difference. And Ralph's suggestion
>> > that the mechanical distortion caused by heating (especially on a
>> > weldment that's of a different hardness or grain stucture than the
>> > base) is a pausible addition. I'll play with different welds and rods
>> > and see if i can learn something. I have to fix this problem on this
>> > particular bar this morning, so I'll tig it up again--carefully, with
>> > good penetration and cleanliness--normalize and see what happens.
>> >
>> > Thanks and happy holidays all,
>> >
>> > JRF
>> > --- Peter Fels And Phoebe Palmer <artgawk at thegrid.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> In theory, TIG welds should be the least susceptable to that
>> > problem.
>> >>
>> >> I've found that running the weldment through a normalizing cycle
>> >> first
>> >> helps...PF
>> >>
>> >> TodEstesRN at aol.com wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >In a message dated 12/21/2004 6:29:52 PM Central Standard Time,
>> >> >xlch58 at swbell.net writes:
>> >> >Justin Fellenz wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >>All,
>> >> >>
>> >> >>I've been finding that electric welds, especially tig,
>> > disintegrate
>> >> in
>> >> >>the forge. Last session I cheated and tigged a couple of pieces of
>> >> bar
>> >> >>together rather than forge-weldng them. I used a general purpose
>> >> mild
>> >> >>steel gas welding rod (probably RG-45, copper coated) and 2 1/2"
>> >> round
>> >> >>bars of 1018 or 1020, or, my supplier said, maybe a38. I cleaned
>> >> the
>> >> >>rods up with a flap wheel, beveled the edges, and burnt em
>> >> together.
>> >> >>Looked like good penetration,a little sparking from junk on the
>> >> metal
>> >> >>but not too bad. But when I heated it up and beat on it with a
>> >> hammer,
>> >> >>the filler just sort of diappeared leaving gaps between the bar
>> >> ends.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>Maybe I didnt get it all the way clean and carbon or scale
>> > deposits
>> >> or
>> >> >>whatever heated up and blew the filler or the HAZ metal out. My
>> >> best
>> >> >>guess. Anyone else experience this? I find that mig welds hold up
>> >> ok as
>> >> >>long as the penetration's really good, but where it's not it looks
>> >> like
>> >> >>the HAZ again just kind of powders and the bead pulls away from
>> > the
>> >> >>bar.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>Thoughts?
>> >> >>
>> >> >>Cheers,
>> >> >>
>> >> >>JRF
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >Don't know why that happened but have had good luck Oxy/Acy gas
>> >> welding then
>> >> >forging.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >Time enough for sleep in the grave.
>> >> >Tod Estes
>> >> >_______________________________________________
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>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
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