[TheForge] allstate oxy-propane torch

[terry l. ridder]

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004, Jerry Frost wrote:

From: "terry l. ridder" <terrylr at blauedonau.com>
terrylr> hello;
terrylr>
terrylr> i have looked at the allstate oxy-propane torch and talked with many
terrylr> welders who visit my friend, paul's, welding shop. we all have the same
terrylr> question which allstate has yet to answer.
terrylr>
terrylr> how can allstate make the claim that oxygen comsumption will be less
terrylr> when using propane than when using acetylene when the chemistry of the
terrylr> gases clearly state otherwise?
terrylr>

<snip>

terrylr>
terrylr> has anyone gotten a good answer from allstate on this question yet?
terrylr>
terrylr> --
terrylr> terry l. ridder ><>

jerry> 
jerry> 
jerry> All States does explain this on it's website they just don't lay it out in
jerry> plain english. I'll attempt to do so now.
jerry> 

i have read the all states web page and the answers they give are in my
personal opinion "waffling answers". all i want to see is the chemistry
spelt out for their claims.

reading between the lines i have the impression that they have held
oxygen consumption constant and as running an extremely lean oxygen
propane mixture which would mean that the flame is always oxiding.

jerry> 
jerry> In my last post I said I could chart the fuel consumption numbers for the
jerry> head to head I had with the oxy/acet torch at the state shop but didn't. I'm
jerry> not going to actually chart it now as even a halfway accurate chart would be
jerry> in 3 dimensions. I will do a little arithmatic though.
jerry> 
jerry> I'm going to disregard the fact the acet torch was around half again as
jerry> large. If it were the same size it might've taken 10 times as long but I
jerry> really don't have the interest to try calculating/guestimating the
jerry> difference. And I am sure as hell not going to hunt down somebody with a
jerry> like sized rosebud and repeat the experiment!
jerry> 
jerry> The All States torch was running 4 oz. of propane compared to the acet rig's
jerry> 15 lbs. Meaning the acet torch was (not counting it's larger size) running
jerry> 60 times as much pressure and burning well more than 60 times as much fuel
jerry> per second. Being half again as big a tip could it actually have been
jerry> burning 120 times as much fuel per second? For discussion's sake, let's
jerry> leave it at 60x.
jerry> 

jerry, running propane at a 1/4psig and oxygen at 130psig that is
basically an oxygen lance. being an oxygen lance it should melt the cube
in less time than the oxy-acetylene.

jerry> 
jerry> Now factor in the fact the All States torch melted the 1" cube in under 13
jerry> seconds as opposed to 67 seconds for the 50%larger acet torch and I my
jerry> calculator tells me I was in error in my previous post; it wasn't four times
jerry> faster, it was 5.15 times faster.
jerry> 
jerry> Okay, let's see the acet rosebud is burning 60 times as much fuel for about
jerry> 5 times as long to do the same amount of work. That's 300 times as much
jerry> acetylene to do the same job!
jerry> 
jerry> Does 300 times as much fuel to do the same amount of work maybe mean that
jerry> even though prop wants 21.5 times as much oxy it's still just a bit more
jerry> efficient? Say 98 times as efficient?
jerry> 
jerry> Before you pull out your calculator and post a table showing this still
jerry> doesn't add up to 98 times as efficient I'll tell you another little secret
jerry> about the All States rig. It has an on/off thumb valve. You adjust the torch
jerry> once then turn it on and off as necessary. How much gas is wasted either
jerry> adjusting the flame for every cut or leaving it going between cuts?
jerry> 
jerry> I'll tell you the difference, all together my torch costs me $0.02 for every
jerry> dollar an oxy/acet would cost.
jerry> 
jerry> My pocket says it's true. Everybody I know who owns an All States rig says
jerry> it's true.
jerry> 
jerry> Forget the flame chemistry tables.
jerry> 
jerry> Call Lyle, get a demo.
jerry>

as i said above i do not want a demo, i want to see the chemistry spelt
out and the oxygen consumption explictly answered.

jerry> 
jerry> Frosty
jerry> 

-- 
terry l. ridder ><>