[TheForge] Re: [TheForge]Ball Bearing in Bean was Burning Metal
Ralph Sproul
[email protected]
Fri Nov 7 18:30:00 2003
Hi Dave, the Bearing was about 3/8 and of course it was right where
I had to drill with a mag drill.............what are the chances of that for
anyone else in this world but me! :-) There was this long cold shunt in
the beam with the bearing at the end of it.........or maybe that was the
beginning of it......... At any rate it was the first time I had ever
worked with a piece of steel that was labeled "Product of Brazil". The
sawmill I was working for was notorious for going low cost on
everything.......they got themselves a prize beam that day! The flange
thickness on that beam was about a 1/2" it was a heavy carrier - so of
course it had to be the screwed up beam(once again, Ralph's luck applies
here). So we opted to order another beam for that location and use the
funky one in smaller pieces where they didn't matter structurally........as
machine risers.
I called it the international project as we had steel from Russia,
Brazil, and the Czech repulic.
Ralph
----- Original Message -----
From: "David E. Smucker" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 10:05 PM
Subject: [TheForge] Re: [TheForge]Ball Bearing in Bean was Burning Metal
> Ralph, How big was the ball bearing you found? The only way I know for
> this to happen is for a bearing to come apart above pass line on the hot
> rolling line and get rolled into the steel. Very damaging to the mill
> rolls -- besides putting out a bad product. We had a rule that required
> wire ties for all bolts above pass line for just this reason. (Doesn't
keep
> bearing parts from falling if you have a failed bearing on a crane or
other
> overhead equipment.) While I have never seen a bearing rolled in, I have
> seen major roll damage from rolling something very hard thought the
rolling
> mill. Most of the time we could trace this to another roll that spalled
and
> sent part of the roll (very hard) through the roll bite of another pair of
> rolls. We always scraped the metal being roll as this was much cheaper
that
> doing more damage as we rolled the metal to thinner gauge on down the
line.
>
> Dave Smucker
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ralph Sproul" <[email protected]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 8:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Re: Burning Metal
>
>
> > Good point on rusted and heavy scaled plate........that is a
great
> > way to get a mess.........and heavy scale plate really sends hot flakes
> > flying as well. I gave up on goggles and went to face shields for that
> > reason........I'm already ugly enough without the burn scars. My
favorite
> > shop atire for cutting is a set of shaded glasses and a face shield for
> full
> > protection from flake and back blow if it occurs. Back blow is not
> > something that in line arrestors stop.....it is when the cut stops for
> some
> > wonderful reason.......(like a ball bearing in the middle of your
> > beam!)........and the old faithful blow back of molten metal occurs. I
> > actually have that ball bearing I dug out of the middle of a beam flange
> > when that occured.
> > This surface cleaning is especially important on cutting bevels
> at
> > a 45 degree angle by hand.......that's the only way to get decent
results
> in
> > that process.
> >
> > Ralph
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Chuck Robinson" <[email protected]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 7:10 PM
> > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Re: Burning Metal
> >
> >
> > > Right on Ralph,
> > > Another no-no is not cleaning the cut line surface on the plate.
> > > When I get lazy and don't pre clean the plate the cut has to pre- heat
> the
> > > surface scale, an so the cut is more ragged.
> > > One technique I use, is to turn my side grinder 90 degrees, and use
the
> > disk
> > > edge to grind a 1/8" de scaling cut along the pencil line.
> > > Chuck
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Ralph Sproul" <[email protected]>
> > > To: <[email protected]>
> > > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 5:43 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Re: Burning Metal
> > >
> > >
> > > > Chuck, I couldn't agree with you more on proper pre-heats.
> > > > My experience with a cutting torch has found that a "cold
> flame"
> > > is
> > > > a good thing for lack of slag. Now how to define a cold flame on
the
> > > torch
> > > > would depend on the material thickness your cutting vs rate of cut.
> > When
> > > > you are cutting and have the very top of the plate melting and
> puckering
> > > > back looking like the very top edges are melted and rolled(sloppy
kerf
> > > that
> > > > I think you refer to)........you need to cut the preheat a bit so
your
> > not
> > > > melting the top edge of the plate/piece. This means developing a
> knack
> > > for
> > > > proper cut rate in certain thicknesses.........then when your used
to
> > > that -
> > > > the ability to fine tune the flame so you don't get that top melt is
> > when
> > > > you start to save yourself hours of grinding and clean up on
> fabrication
> > > > projects. A good thing to remember is a cutting torch is just
> > > > that.......your cutting with an oxidizing stream and if you enter
the
> > > > equation of melting steel into that.......you got a mess you gotta
> clean
> > > up.
> > > > Don't get me wrong, I still have to fine tune things with a
> > couple
> > > > trails before diving into the project if I want accuracy and lack of
> > slag.
> > > > It's just like forging a study or sample, or doing a weld test to
set
> > the
> > > > heat and feed speed on your welder to "tune it in".......sometimes
the
> > > test
> > > > piece is to tune you into running a torch - and if it's one of those
> > days,
> > > > you certainly don't want to be making your first cut on your
expensive
> > > plate
> > > > layout or parts which you have JUST the right amount of material
for.
> > > > Making simple guides and fixtures for flame cutting plate,
> wide
> > > > flats, beams, flanges, and circles are also a good idea as the less
> > energy
> > > > you put into your alignment and distance of tip to stock........the
> more
> > > you
> > > > can focus on the cut rate and clean cold flame so you don't spend
the
> > day
> > > > grinding. A day of heavy slag grinding these days is right at the
> > bottom
> > > of
> > > > my list of fun things to do for a day.
> > > >
> > > > Ralph
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Chuck Robinson" <[email protected]>
> > > > To: <[email protected]>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 1:59 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Re: Burning Metal
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Hey Jerry,
> > > > > What I have observed during cutting operations, is that after
> setting
> > up
> > > > the
> > > > > torch properly, it is critical to use the right preheat flame to
> heat
> > > the
> > > > > steel enough to start the cutting action; but not over heat the
area
> > so
> > > > that
> > > > > the kerf gets sloppy. Once the cut gets sloppy, the slag diverts
the
> > > > cutting
> > > > > action to the sides of the kerf. And the cut is kaput. The higher
> the
> > O2
> > > > > pressure and thicker the metal, the more slag is formed. Once the
> slag
> > > > > oxides have clogged the cut. its a real pain to restart the cut at
> > that
> > > > > point. It's like the slag is forming an insulating barrier.
> > > > > I've heard that the allstate is a really good torch, but havent
> tried
> > > one
> > > > > yet.
> > > > > Chuck
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Jerry Frost" <[email protected]>
> > > > > To: <[email protected]>
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 3:19 AM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Re: Burning Metal
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Chuck:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm not sure how my muddled ramblings lead to your question
except
> > > > perhaps
> > > > > I
> > > > > > didn't say the iron/steel is burning under the oxy jet. Once the
> > steel
> > > > is
> > > > > > hot enough to initiate burning under the oxy it is self
> supporting.
> > > > > Properly
> > > > > > set and guided by a steady hand you can certainly shut down the
> acet
> > > > after
> > > > > > cutting starts and continue just with the oxy.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Oxides and slag inclusions that shield the iron/steel from the
oxy
> > jet
> > > > > stop
> > > > > > the combustion. Iron and steel within the cutable range of
alloys
> > > > produces
> > > > > > an oxide with a much lower melting temp than the unoxidized
metal
> > and
> > > is
> > > > > > literally blown out of the cut by the "pressure" of it's own
> > > combustion.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ayup, improper regulator settings and tip selection is the #1
> reason
> > > for
> > > > > > poor torch cutting. (Oh okay, dirty tips are right up there
too.)
> I
> > > use
> > > > an
> > > > > > Allstates oxy/prop rig at home and the regulators are self
> metering
> > > but
> > > > at
> > > > > > work I'm always resetting the regulators. Everybody seems to
want
> to
> > > run
> > > > > > 5lbs acet and 40lbs oxy. What really kills me is somebody will
> > > > compliment
> > > > > > me on a torch cut, then rag on me for not having the regs set
> > "right".
> > > > > > <sigh>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Frosty
> > > > > > ------------------------
> > > > > > If it ain't forged
> > > > > > it ain't real.
> > > > > > Wrought iron is.
> > > > > > The FrostWorks
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Meadow Lakes, AK.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Chuck Robinson" <[email protected]>
> > > > > > To: <[email protected]>
> > > > > > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 7:37 PM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Re: Burning Metal
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jerry,
> > > > > > > If this is true, how can I shut the Acetylene valve off when
the
> > cut
> > > > > > starts
> > > > > > > and complete a cut in metal 1/2" thick with out the fuel
> supply?
> > > > > > > When I first started cutting my 5+" thick steel anvil
billets,
> I
> > > had
> > > > > > major
> > > > > > > problems with slag build up and sloppy wide kerfs or
incomplete
> > > cuts.
> > > > > > > After reviewing my O/A cutting text books. I lowered the O2
> > pressure
> > > > and
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > cutting action improved dramatically. The higher the O2
pressure
> > the
> > > > > more
> > > > > > > slag formed in the kerf
> > > > > > > The cutting action is exothermic.
> > > > > > > I believe poor O/A torch performance is mostly due to not
> adhering
> > > to
> > > > > > proper
> > > > > > > gas pressure for the tip size recommended for the steel
> thickness.
> > > > > > > Chuck
> > > > > >
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