[TheForge] Re: [TheForge]Ball Bearing in Bean was Burning Metal
David E. Smucker
[email protected]
Fri Nov 7 07:25:01 2003
Ralph, How big was the ball bearing you found? The only way I know for
this to happen is for a bearing to come apart above pass line on the hot
rolling line and get rolled into the steel. Very damaging to the mill
rolls -- besides putting out a bad product. We had a rule that required
wire ties for all bolts above pass line for just this reason. (Doesn't keep
bearing parts from falling if you have a failed bearing on a crane or other
overhead equipment.) While I have never seen a bearing rolled in, I have
seen major roll damage from rolling something very hard thought the rolling
mill. Most of the time we could trace this to another roll that spalled and
sent part of the roll (very hard) through the roll bite of another pair of
rolls. We always scraped the metal being roll as this was much cheaper that
doing more damage as we rolled the metal to thinner gauge on down the line.
Dave Smucker
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph Sproul" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 8:03 PM
Subject: Re: [TheForge] Re: Burning Metal
> Good point on rusted and heavy scaled plate........that is a great
> way to get a mess.........and heavy scale plate really sends hot flakes
> flying as well. I gave up on goggles and went to face shields for that
> reason........I'm already ugly enough without the burn scars. My favorite
> shop atire for cutting is a set of shaded glasses and a face shield for
full
> protection from flake and back blow if it occurs. Back blow is not
> something that in line arrestors stop.....it is when the cut stops for
some
> wonderful reason.......(like a ball bearing in the middle of your
> beam!)........and the old faithful blow back of molten metal occurs. I
> actually have that ball bearing I dug out of the middle of a beam flange
> when that occured.
> This surface cleaning is especially important on cutting bevels
at
> a 45 degree angle by hand.......that's the only way to get decent results
in
> that process.
>
> Ralph
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chuck Robinson" <[email protected]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 7:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Re: Burning Metal
>
>
> > Right on Ralph,
> > Another no-no is not cleaning the cut line surface on the plate.
> > When I get lazy and don't pre clean the plate the cut has to pre- heat
the
> > surface scale, an so the cut is more ragged.
> > One technique I use, is to turn my side grinder 90 degrees, and use the
> disk
> > edge to grind a 1/8" de scaling cut along the pencil line.
> > Chuck
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ralph Sproul" <[email protected]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 5:43 PM
> > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Re: Burning Metal
> >
> >
> > > Chuck, I couldn't agree with you more on proper pre-heats.
> > > My experience with a cutting torch has found that a "cold
flame"
> > is
> > > a good thing for lack of slag. Now how to define a cold flame on the
> > torch
> > > would depend on the material thickness your cutting vs rate of cut.
> When
> > > you are cutting and have the very top of the plate melting and
puckering
> > > back looking like the very top edges are melted and rolled(sloppy kerf
> > that
> > > I think you refer to)........you need to cut the preheat a bit so your
> not
> > > melting the top edge of the plate/piece. This means developing a
knack
> > for
> > > proper cut rate in certain thicknesses.........then when your used to
> > that -
> > > the ability to fine tune the flame so you don't get that top melt is
> when
> > > you start to save yourself hours of grinding and clean up on
fabrication
> > > projects. A good thing to remember is a cutting torch is just
> > > that.......your cutting with an oxidizing stream and if you enter the
> > > equation of melting steel into that.......you got a mess you gotta
clean
> > up.
> > > Don't get me wrong, I still have to fine tune things with a
> couple
> > > trails before diving into the project if I want accuracy and lack of
> slag.
> > > It's just like forging a study or sample, or doing a weld test to set
> the
> > > heat and feed speed on your welder to "tune it in".......sometimes the
> > test
> > > piece is to tune you into running a torch - and if it's one of those
> days,
> > > you certainly don't want to be making your first cut on your expensive
> > plate
> > > layout or parts which you have JUST the right amount of material for.
> > > Making simple guides and fixtures for flame cutting plate,
wide
> > > flats, beams, flanges, and circles are also a good idea as the less
> energy
> > > you put into your alignment and distance of tip to stock........the
more
> > you
> > > can focus on the cut rate and clean cold flame so you don't spend the
> day
> > > grinding. A day of heavy slag grinding these days is right at the
> bottom
> > of
> > > my list of fun things to do for a day.
> > >
> > > Ralph
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Chuck Robinson" <[email protected]>
> > > To: <[email protected]>
> > > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 1:59 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Re: Burning Metal
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hey Jerry,
> > > > What I have observed during cutting operations, is that after
setting
> up
> > > the
> > > > torch properly, it is critical to use the right preheat flame to
heat
> > the
> > > > steel enough to start the cutting action; but not over heat the area
> so
> > > that
> > > > the kerf gets sloppy. Once the cut gets sloppy, the slag diverts the
> > > cutting
> > > > action to the sides of the kerf. And the cut is kaput. The higher
the
> O2
> > > > pressure and thicker the metal, the more slag is formed. Once the
slag
> > > > oxides have clogged the cut. its a real pain to restart the cut at
> that
> > > > point. It's like the slag is forming an insulating barrier.
> > > > I've heard that the allstate is a really good torch, but havent
tried
> > one
> > > > yet.
> > > > Chuck
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Jerry Frost" <[email protected]>
> > > > To: <[email protected]>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 3:19 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Re: Burning Metal
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Chuck:
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm not sure how my muddled ramblings lead to your question except
> > > perhaps
> > > > I
> > > > > didn't say the iron/steel is burning under the oxy jet. Once the
> steel
> > > is
> > > > > hot enough to initiate burning under the oxy it is self
supporting.
> > > > Properly
> > > > > set and guided by a steady hand you can certainly shut down the
acet
> > > after
> > > > > cutting starts and continue just with the oxy.
> > > > >
> > > > > Oxides and slag inclusions that shield the iron/steel from the oxy
> jet
> > > > stop
> > > > > the combustion. Iron and steel within the cutable range of alloys
> > > produces
> > > > > an oxide with a much lower melting temp than the unoxidized metal
> and
> > is
> > > > > literally blown out of the cut by the "pressure" of it's own
> > combustion.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ayup, improper regulator settings and tip selection is the #1
reason
> > for
> > > > > poor torch cutting. (Oh okay, dirty tips are right up there too.)
I
> > use
> > > an
> > > > > Allstates oxy/prop rig at home and the regulators are self
metering
> > but
> > > at
> > > > > work I'm always resetting the regulators. Everybody seems to want
to
> > run
> > > > > 5lbs acet and 40lbs oxy. What really kills me is somebody will
> > > compliment
> > > > > me on a torch cut, then rag on me for not having the regs set
> "right".
> > > > > <sigh>
> > > > >
> > > > > Frosty
> > > > > ------------------------
> > > > > If it ain't forged
> > > > > it ain't real.
> > > > > Wrought iron is.
> > > > > The FrostWorks
> > > > >
> > > > > Meadow Lakes, AK.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Chuck Robinson" <[email protected]>
> > > > > To: <[email protected]>
> > > > > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 7:37 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Re: Burning Metal
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Jerry,
> > > > > > If this is true, how can I shut the Acetylene valve off when the
> cut
> > > > > starts
> > > > > > and complete a cut in metal 1/2" thick with out the fuel
supply?
> > > > > > When I first started cutting my 5+" thick steel anvil billets,
I
> > had
> > > > > major
> > > > > > problems with slag build up and sloppy wide kerfs or incomplete
> > cuts.
> > > > > > After reviewing my O/A cutting text books. I lowered the O2
> pressure
> > > and
> > > > > the
> > > > > > cutting action improved dramatically. The higher the O2 pressure
> the
> > > > more
> > > > > > slag formed in the kerf
> > > > > > The cutting action is exothermic.
> > > > > > I believe poor O/A torch performance is mostly due to not
adhering
> > to
> > > > > proper
> > > > > > gas pressure for the tip size recommended for the steel
thickness.
> > > > > > Chuck
> > > > >
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