[TheForge] propane cylinder and tank safety ( was [OT] Pyro-boom )
Paul Hewitt
[email protected]
Sun Jun 1 20:33:01 2003
This too is amusing. A balloon full of O@ will sink to the ground, as will
a balloon full of any flammable gas, nitrogen, CO2, etc, In fact except
Helium and Hydrogen everything sinks. In fact Ozone sinks to the ground, so
I have a question for you How come the stratosphere doesn't sink to the
ground?
And how come we are not poisoned by CO2 and nitrogen, how come they don't
sink to the ground also since they are heavy?
There is a real easy answer and you seem to have looked past it...........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darrell" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 3:26 PM
Subject: Re: [TheForge] propane cylinder and tank safety ( was [OT]
Pyro-boom )
> I just can't let that go without a comment. Could you please tell me how
R12
> that is vented goes straight to the Ozone? The last time I checked, A
> balloon filled with R12 feels like it is lead coated. It drops to the
floor
> with a thud. Unless you are trying to tell me that it sinks through the
> earth with such velocity that it shoots out in China going fast enough to
> reach the ozone layer.
> R12 is so much heavier than air that it will sink into the ground. Once in
> the ground, the sun can't break it down.
> The freon scare is straight political garbage.
> Darrell
>
> http://www.machinemaster.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul Hewitt" <[email protected]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 9:23 AM
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] propane cylinder and tank safety ( was [OT]
> Pyro-boom )
>
>
> > Might I also point out its even more illegal to vent R-12 refrigerant to
> the
> > atmosphere, but people recommend making Freon forges?.......At least
> Propane
> > will oxidize and turn to various shorter chains as the UV light attacks
it
> > and attaches Oxygen to it. Freon of any type besides being toxic to
> humans,
> > goes right past go forgets to collect its 200.00 and burns up the ozone
in
> > the atmosphere because UV light cannot break it down..................
> >
> > Grumphh......
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Paul Hewitt" <[email protected]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 9:14 AM
> > Subject: Re: [TheForge] propane cylinder and tank safety ( was [OT]
> > Pyro-boom )
> >
> >
> > > I recycle them for a living, we vacuum pump the gas from the and run
it
> > > through a condenser then back into storage tanks. In all seriousness
I
> > > doubt any one on this board is going to attempt to cut open a full
> > > tank.........
> > >
> > > Also since we all have gas forges why would we vent a tank to the
> > atmosphere
> > > when we can use it to run our forges till its empty?
> > >
> > > Paul
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "terry l. ridder" <[email protected]>
> > > To: <[email protected]>
> > > Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 8:16 AM
> > > Subject: [TheForge] propane cylinder and tank safety ( was [OT]
> > Pyro-boom )
> > >
> > >
> > > > hello;
> > > >
> > > > i feel that i need to jump in here concerning cutting propane
> cylinders
> > > > and tanks. several safety points and environmental protection agency
> > > > regulations need to be restated.
> > > >
> > > > 0. venting propane to the atmosphere is against epa regulations. if
a
> > > > propane cylinder and or tank has propane in either gas or liquid it
> must
> > > > be burned off using a propane flare. ( think large weed burner on
> tripod
> > > > stand in a vertical position. ) the alternative is to pump the
> cylinder
> > > > or tank empty. the pumping tends to labor intensive so most propane
> > > > service companies burn it off.
> > > >
> > > > 1. if a cylinder or tank has a value which will not open ( the value
> has
> > > > failed closed ) the procedure to handle this depends on whether it
is
> a
> > > > cylinder or tank.
> > > > a cylinder:
> > > > if at all possible the cylinder should be frozen using
liquid
> > > > nitrogen. once the propane has solidified the value is removed and a
> new
> > > > value is installed. the cylinder is allowed to warmup naturally.
> > > > if the cylinder cannot be frozen and if the failed value has
> the
> > > > screw vent, the screw vent should be opened to allow the cylinder to
> > > > vent at a slow rate. remember that propane is heavier than air and
> > > > collects in low areas. the venting should be reported to the proper
> > > > regulatory agency/agencies.
> > > > a tank:
> > > > if the tank has an emergency unloader value ( most do ). an
> > > > unloader adapter is attached allowing liquid propane to be
withdrawn.
> > > > the unloader value allows for either pumping out to an alternate
> storage
> > > > facility or for the burning off of the propane. the propane flare in
> > > > this case has a vaporizer which allows the liquid propane to become
> > > > gaseous propane and burned off using the propane flare.
> > > > if the tank has a belly value this is used in place of the
> > > > emergency unloader value ( which is normally located on top of the
> > > > tank.)
> > > >
> > > > i have worked with propane, propane cylinders and tanks for nearly
35+
> > > > years. propane, propane cylinders and tanks need to be respected and
> > > > proper safety precautions must be taken. remember the person
injuried
> or
> > > > killed may be you. perhaps worst it may be someone else and you have
> to
> > > > live with the guilt of directly or indirectly causing or
contributing
> to
> > > > their death. in which case you may be rightful sued for wrongful
death
> > > > or negligence.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, 1 Jun 2003, Peter Fels And Phoebe Palmer wrote:
> > > >
> > > > peter>
> > > > peter> Paul;
> > > > peter> A while back we had a discussion about cutting open old
propane
> > > tanks
> > > > peter> and several of us had fairly elaborate precautions we took
> first.
> >
> > > > peter> Clearly you are the expert here...
> > > > peter> The text below infers that you just jerk the valves and plugs
> and
> > > cut
> > > > peter> them open straight off...is that right?........Pete
> > > > peter>
> > > >
> > > > Paul Hewitt wrote:
> > > > <snip>
> > > >
> > > > paul>
> > > > paul> We devalve about 500 to 1000 tanks a day, and typically then
> > > > paul> cut holes in them. The guys with torches usually pride
> themselves
> > > on the
> > > > paul> tanks that become "jet engines" when a tank sits open long
> enough
> > > they get
> > > > paul> a perfect mixture and then will burn inside the tanks emitting
> the
> > > hot
> > > > paul> exhaust gasses out the hole that's been cut. After about a 2
to
> 3
> > > second
> > > > paul> interval they burn out, but do not explode the tank.
> > > > paul>
> > > >
> > > > <snip>
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Terry L. Ridder ><>
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