[TheForge] BS within BS (YAK)

[A. Vida]

Aaron Silver wrote:

> I think that what people are confusing is intelligence and "culture", or
> "genteel-ness" (if that's even a word. I would more readily agree with the
> statement that swearing shows a lack of culture or refinement rather than
> intelligence.

	Not that this has anything to do with smithing, and I know I
	will probably regret allowing myself to get sucked into it,
	I will address this point.  Your statement is equally
	faulty in linking swearing with culture and/or refinement.
	The definitions of the terms predicate your assertion.  Someone
	from a heavy swearing culture (such as the ghetto where
	everything is "shit" and everyone is a "nigger" or "motherfucker")
	might hold your statements in serious question.  I mean this
	very seriously.  I could point you to people in places such as 
	the Bronx where the local top dog swears like a trucker from the
	time he crawls from his crack-stupor to the time he passes out
	once again, yet is regarded as "bad" (meaning "good" or "cool).
	If you were to assert to anyone in his version of culture that
	he was unrefined or otherwise uncouth, they may look at you as
	just another crazy country bumpkin (you know, like from Brooklyn 
	or something).  They might be quick to point out the car he
	drives, the clothing he wears, his money... you know, all the
	things that constitute "class" ;).  Then they'd turn the argument
	against you, pointing out your filthy clothing, that freak-0
	looking apron you wear, your odor, and the fact that you carry
	a hammer around with you would definitely brand you as some
	crazy, lump-headed cracker with no culture or refinement, no
	matter how well you thought you spoke.

	Ja, this is seriously so.  In such cultures, within which I lived
	for many years, mothers call their children "motherfucker" and
	tell their infants to "shut the fuck up".  This is normal to these
	people and if anyone judgign them based upon this would get an
	earful (and maybe a buttfull of buckshot).

> Unfortunately too many automatically link refinement and
> intelligence. How many times have we seen stereotypes of the high society
> dismissing the blue collared worker simply because their hands are dirty,
> rather than determining if there might be some intelligence underneath that
> soot?

	An equally mistaken practice.  And dangerous, to boot.
> 
> While the original subject of this thread has been beaten to death
> ad-nauseam, I would like to make the following observations:
> 
> 1) I expect that this forum will sometimes contain objectionable content.

	But objectionable to whom?  I don't care if someone swears.
	I may not particularly care for some ultra-neo-liberal
	political rant.  OK, then I jhit my "delete" key.  Big deal.
	You can't please everyone and not everyone will please you.
	My opinion (worth what it cost) is we all might benefit from
	getting over ourselves a bit and simply let the stuff that
	doesn't interest us pass us by.  It's really a pretty easy
	thing to do.  We've visited this so many times in the past.
	I'd think people would be bored of it by now.  Guess I'm wrong.

> At a minimum I would rate the content at PG-13, simply because there might
> be some mild swearing. Anyone that can't handle that, I would suggest
> un-subscribe or simply lurk, since I don't think we wish to re-tread this
> path again.

	Personally, I think this is ridiculous.  I can agree with
	adding YAK or OT to a subject line, as I have done here,
	but I don't think we should become sensors and raters
	beyond that.  Where does it stop?  The next time a
	complaint it made, what, add MORE information to the header,
	and then more again when another complaint is registered?
	Pretty soon the headers will be larger than the messages and
	we will all have to take college courses in properly
	structuring mail headers... congress will pass laws... oh dear.

	It  appears some folks have too thin a skin, and to be honest,
	I think that's a big problem with US culture, so busily trying
	not to upset anyone's delicate sensitivities.  Well, what about
	YOUR sensitivities?  I don't see the squeams of the nation
	doing a hat dance around YOUR feelings (or mine).  They spare
	no opportunity to tell you that you're unintelligent or uncouth
	or whatever vulgar insult, however civilly put they may be, they
	choose to hurl at you as they point out the mortal wounds you have
	inflicted upon them by saying "shit".  Where's the quid pro quo 
	(to look at it as a mercenary)?

	Live and let live.
> 
> 2) I find that this forum is a place to learn about Blacksmithing and Life.
> Rarely do I have the luxury of interacting with people from all around the
> country (or even the world) discussing everything from banging metal to how
> even primates seem to exhibit the human trait of swearing, to whether a
> clean garage is due to gender or upbringing.

	Hear hear. (here here?)
> 
> Aaron

	Oh DAMN... the dog just farted...  jeeeeeez louise.